storytime

Can anyone enlighten me on this part of the NT, (book of Revelation 11:1-2) about the Jews having given the Gentiles place in an outside courtyard as part of the Temple? Does OT speak of such a thing? If so I can't seem to find it.

I'm interested in why Jews would even consider giving a place to the uncircumcised and lawless Gentiles, or is this just another fanciful tale of the early church fathers?

Toto

What does the "OT" say about the second Temple or Herod?

I don't think it was so much that the Jews constructed a place for gentiles, as that the inner part of the temple was forbidden to them.

http://www.bible-history.com/jewishtemple/

andrewcriddle

Mishnah Tractate Kelim 1:8 says in effect that everyone except the seriously ritually unclean is allowed on the Temple Mount but Gentiles are not allowed any further.

Andrew Criddle

storytime

Toto, Andrew, I thank you both, even though it still makes no sense at all to me.

Susan2

No it is not a fanciful tale. It is perhaps, the offering up of the proof demanded by the logic of asserting that they are the chosen ones.

Iow's back in the day, to be honest, I had never heard the arguments in regards to assertions, logics, proofs ect.

What is the Jewish proof that they are the chosen of God? Must not the unchosen exit in order to prove their existence as the chosen?

I bought into all the religious tinsel. Silly me? Oh well, live and learn. Call me tarnished.

Even Jesus calls the Pharisees, scribes, yada yada, the righeous, and he has come to call the sinneres to repentence. I presume that is the outer court.

bacht

If you're asking specifically about Revelation it has to be said that this book closely echos Daniel, Ezekiel, and other prophets, with a seeming Christian overlay. The last few chapters of Ezekiel present his vision of an ideal temple in a holy Jerusalem, which Revelation transfers to heaven. In Revelation the Christian saints replace the Jewish martyrs Daniel holds up as exemplars of faith and divine approval. The glorious future after the final judgment discussed in the prophets is taken to its ultimate conclusion in a new heaven and earth, after the old has been destroyed by universal conflagration.

There's no place in Revelation for lawless gentiles, only Christian ones. The rest are thrown in the lake of fire with the dragon, the antichrist et al. This book is probably the least inclusive in the canon. Catholicism generally leaves the door open to any who repent, and proffers grace and providence as aids to apprehending God's mercy [no I'm not a churchgoer]

yalla

Josephus "Antiquities" Bk 15 Ch 11 #5
The temple.....Thus was the first enclosure.....the second ..up a few steps ...stone wall for a partition, with an inscription which forbade any foreigner to go in under pain of death "

storytime

What is the Jewish proof that they are the chosen of God? They need nor require proof. They just believe what they've been told throughout their generations. Christians aren't the only gullable people ya know.

Call you tarnished? Naa, more likely experienced in the supernatural like most of us are. I'd rather think you intelligent for leaving all that BS behind.

storytime

Agree, no place for lawless gentiles in Revelation. The New Jerusalem is measured by an angel that is a man. Jacob is the man. The city is foursquare with measured tribes, three tribal names per 4 squared area. This the Temple among the Jews where no outside non-Jewish people can enter in. This is the New heaven and new earth as seen in John's vision, measured by the 12 tribes of Jacob called Israel.

Jewish followers of Jesus were the original Christ-ians in that Jewish sect. Peter's vision of godless gentiles (idol worshipers) obtaining approval of the Jewish god and becoming equal to Jews in regards to inheritance of "the promise" of blessing, as I read and compare the OT with the NT, can be nothing but a lie. But then I find no forecast of god-man Jesus in OT either.

According to the OT story Solomon had a porch built onto the Temple. Herod's construction may have been called a porch also and church fathers changed that Jewish place before the entrance to the Temple into their own fabricated space. Jews were commanded to kill non Jews for the slightest offenses, so I can't imagine Jews in that time "giving" Gentiles anything. That would have gone against what their God had commanded about non association with people who were lawless, and without covenant of circumcision. It would be like Esau who gave away his birthright.

storytime

Still nothing about the Jews "giving" anything to Gentiles, much less an outside courtyard. I wonder what the Gentiles were supposed to do in the courtyard. Maybe exchange old wives tales? Play hopscotch? Stick out their tongues at Jews? What??