lpetrich

Magus, what would you consider acceptable proof of Biblical errancy? Yes, our site has several pages on that subject.

Also, Biblical errancy could have been inspired by God Almighty (if there is one) in order to hint that the Bible is not 100% literal truth.

Warcraft3

King Rat:

I highly doubt that. Your insulting description of it being an "epic fiction" shows me that you in fact DO NOT understand how alleged (yeah, thats right I said alleged) contradictions are answered.

The problem is, skeptics have been presented with much evidence contradicting their claims of errancy. I would submit that continuing to spout errancy in the face of contrary evidence is worse than lying.

Its an error why? Because you dont believe it? I guess I forgot that everything you think or believe is automatically truth .

Actually, I think the arguments in favor of the Resurrection being a historical event are pretty good ones.



No, what you are doing is far worse than lying. You are being willfully ignorant, this is a betrayal of your intellect. I find that to be far more repugnant than a mere lie.

Xixax

It would be great to see a thread started ( again ) on this in the BC&A forum. Would you take time to start and participate in such a thread?

I personally find the arguments filled with vast amounts amounts of speculation and ad hoc rationalizations. They also continuously fail to take the history of the gospels, their creation and proliferation, into account.

I would enjoy seeing you present a few arguments you think are most convincing on that forum to see if there is any argument, reasonable and backed up with weighty evidence, that would contradict and depose them.

Also, I see little point in continuing this discussion, however that word may be applied to this exchange, at least in this manner.

Perhaps instead of talking past each other without presenting actual items to examine, someone could present an error they feel shows the bible to be errant and that can be debated? Anything other than the "you're a liar"/"nuh huh, you are"/"I know you are but what am I"/"I'm rubber you're glue, what you say bounces off of me and sticks to you" debate that's happened thus far.

Or not... doesn't really matter, I have some work to attend to.

King Rat

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Get cracking Steadele, convince me, god wants you to.

Another theistic error. I believe to be truth that which is proven. NOT "everything you think or believe is automatically truth." Is this your best shot, that I don't have faith?

Cite please.

I chose my words very carefully, for you to clumsily attempt to turn them around is laughable and intellectually bankrupt. I actually thought it would take a Spinner or maybe some corn to bring your true nature to the surface, but all it took was a bare hook.

King Rat

Steadele, a good start to convince me would be to prove that the virgin birth actually occurred. If you can prove to me that the virgin birth actually happened I will convert on the spot.

All I need is proof and you will have saved a soul. Is it too much to ask? My eternal salvation is on the line here, do it for my precious soul.

I wonder what god would think if you walked away from the opportunity to save my soul?

Biff the unclean

Your insulting description of it being an "epic fiction" shows me that you in fact DO NOT understand how alleged (yeah, thats right I said alleged) contradictions are answered.
Perhaps you are new to this. You do leave the impression of being only a youth.
I find it humorous that you consider it an "insult" to point out that the bible is fiction. It's a story about super heroes and their magical adventures, of course it's fiction. Why should you be "insulted" by this fact any more than you would be by being told that Harry Potter was fiction?

The problem is, skeptics have been presented with much evidence contradicting their claims of errancy. I would submit that continuing to spout errancy in the face of contrary evidence is worse than lying.
We eat Apologists for breakfast around here. No one has presented "evidence" only claims that the bible doesn't say what it says.

Actually, I think the arguments in favor of the Resurrection being a historical event are pretty good ones.
I would like to hear some that you think are good. And I would like to hear what supporting evidence you have that Jesus even existed, let alone was resurrected.

No, what you are doing is far worse than lying. You are being willfully ignorant, this is a betrayal of your intellect. I find that to be far more repugnant than a mere lie.
Oh yeah, Pea Wee Herman. "I know you are, but what am I?" What ever happened to him?

Warcraft3

I will consider starting such a thread, although I have pretty much seen all the arguments there are both for and against things like the resurrection. So it would all just be repeated for the 2,348,952,307,642 time,

As to the flaming lets take a look at what happened.....

1. I responded to a sarcastic post with another sarcastic post
2. Someone (call this person A) then asked me to back up something that they thought I was implying about the first sarcastic post
3. I explain that the post was sarcastic and I challenge poster A to show me where I made the alleged claim
4. Poster A claims that the implication is obvious from my post and then accuses me of libel.
5. I explain once again to poster A that my post was a sarcastic responce to a sarcastic post and if there is any implied meaning in my post that is because the original sarcastic post had it as well.
*break*
6. Posters B and C accuse poster D of lying
7. I defend poster D and tell posters B and C that they should not make such accusations
8. Both posters simply tell me they wont stop
9. I post some rather sarcastic posts in responce
10. The moderator steps in and stops the flaming
*break*
11. After all this, poster E feels he needs to add another charge of lying to the thread (I guess one libel charge and two lying charges werent good enough)
12. I repeat some of the charges back to poster E in the hope he will see how silly it is to make such accusations
13. Poster E doesnt seem to get it
14. I post this explanation to Xixax
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note that I did not just come out of nowhere and accuse someone of lying, libel, or being "willfully ignorant".

I do not do such things as my history on this and another forum shows quite well. I am a reasonable person and easy to talk to. I have several atheist/agnostic friends that I often debate with and we never get into such mud-slinging contests.

If I got into exchanges like this with non-theists often, I would concede that it might be something I was doing.....but the fact is that the blame lies on those other posters, not me.

I have noticed that the skeptics who have dealt with me before and are reasonable people do not use these methods of debate, and have not made comments to me or PMed me concerning this thread. That is because all can see where the blame is to be placed....on those people who have crummy attitudes and need to charge people with deceit and insult them to feed the chip on their shoulder.

So lets get past this people or Ill just start ignoring several of you and only talk with those who can be reasonable. Either way its really no skin off my back.

King Rat

I don't recall accusing anyone of lying, please point it out to me.

If you completely misunderstood my post what is the point of repeating it back to me? Ya know Steadele we've all been here for the entire thread, so there is no need to remind us of what went on. How about just answering our questions instead of wasting our time reminding us what happened 10 minutes ago.

Oh I get it. I've fished this stream my whole life, I love trout. Maybe I'll change my handle to "Poster E." It has a certain ring to it.

Biff the unclean

Please shit or get off the pot

Warcraft3

Well I see you have graduated from calling people liars to calling them young. Im 27 Biff, so Im not exactly some inexperienced youth.

Quote:

I find it humorous that you consider it an "insult" to point out that the bible is fiction. It's a story about super heroes and their magical adventures, of course it's fiction. Why should you be "insulted" by this fact any more than you would be by being told that Harry Potter was fiction?

*Sigh* You really dont seem to get it Biff. If you cant figure out why someone would find it insulting, thats on you man.

Quote:

The problem is, skeptics have been presented with much evidence contradicting their claims of errancy. I would submit that continuing to spout errancy in the face of contrary evidence is worse than lying. We eat Apologists for breakfast around here. No one has presented "evidence" only claims that the bible doesn't say what it says.

You eat apologists for breakfast? Yeah ok sure. Ive read enough threads here and at TWEB to see just how good skeptics do vs apologists in an internet debate. Not to mention various books and web articels I have read.

Sorry, but neither side is eating the other for breakfast.

Quote:

Actually, I think the arguments in favor of the Resurrection being a historical event are pretty good ones. I would like to hear some that you think are good. And I would like to hear what supporting evidence you have that Jesus even existed, let alone was resurrected.

Ive read this argument before (as Im sure you have as well)..as to the existance of Jesus the apologists win hands down.
As to the resurrection being a historical event I think the Theists have it slightly over the atheists here. But only slightly.

Quote:

No, what you are doing is far worse than lying. You are being willfully ignorant, this is a betrayal of your intellect. I find that to be far more repugnant than a mere lie. Oh yeah, Pea Wee Herman. "I know you are, but what am I?" What ever happened to him?

Well first of all, I do not respect your opinion since you are one of the posters who felt the need to wildly throw around charges of lying. Then after you were shown to be wrong, you didnt retract the statement or even bother to apologize. No, instead you chose to cling to the next charge you could come up with and so grabbed hold of this "you do leave the impression of being a youth" garbage. Brilliant way to get me to discuss things with you. As if your some uber-mature level headed guru with all kinds of wisdom and restraint. I guess you showed that quite well when you refrained from wildly calling someone a liar. Oh....wait........