Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DoubtingDave · 03-21-2012, 12:06 PM

Hey everyone,
I challenged the infamous Bob Turkel (aka James Holding) from tecktonics via email. His response was exactly as I guessed--full of ad hominems.

Quote:

1) theologyweb.com

2) I found it already. evilbible.com as a source? Paul Tobin as a source? Seriously? Who do you think you're dealing with here?

3) Items 2-5, like I said.

Based on your debates you're about 10 steps behind me on things like the birth narratives, the Tyre prophecy, etc. Unless you can show me you're more advanced than that you're not worth debating until you do more serious study -- and also learn that fundies aren't representative of intelligent Christianity. The positions you go after are kindergarten stuff.

That will be all. You can register at TWeb if you wish. But don't be surprised if all the Christians there do is howl with laughter.

Switch89 · 03-21-2012, 12:25 PM

When will people learn that this fool isn't worth dealing with? It seems like just about everybody has to learn that on their own. He's a fundamentalist dumbass who excels at rationalizing the problems with the bible, a crank wannabe "researcher," and in general a nobody. So I say leave him alone and don't worry about him. If you really wanted to do some good, I'd say you should expose some of his sloppy scholarship and email it to as many of his financial supporters as you can. But even that is not likely to do any good.

DoubtingDave · 03-21-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch89

When will people learn that this fool isn't worth dealing with? It seems like just about everybody has to learn that on their own. He's a fundamentalist dumbass who excels at rationalizing the problems with the bible, a crank wannabe "researcher," and in general a nobody. So I say leave him alone and don't worry about him. If you really wanted to do some good, I'd say you should expose some of his sloppy scholarship and email it to as many of his financial supporters as you can. But even that is not likely to do any good.

True. Just an easy win I s'pose

Roger Pearse · 03-21-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockOfAtheism

Hey everyone,
I challenged the infamous Bob Turkel (aka James Holding) from tecktonics via email. His response was exactly as I guessed--full of ad hominems.

Quote:

1) theologyweb.com

2) I found it already. evilbible.com as a source? Paul Tobin as a source? Seriously? Who do you think you're dealing with here?

3) Items 2-5, like I said.

Based on your debates you're about 10 steps behind me on things like the birth narratives, the Tyre prophecy, etc. Unless you can show me you're more advanced than that you're not worth debating until you do more serious study -- and also learn that fundies aren't representative of intelligent Christianity. The positions you go after are kindergarten stuff.

That will be all. You can register at TWeb if you wish. But don't be surprised if all the Christians there do is howl with laughter.

I was wondering what the ad hominem is in this. Is it "you only say that because you are ignorant"? If so ... I'm not sure that this is what is usually meant by an ad hominem. People *can* be sufficiently ignorant of a subject that there really is nothing to be done with them unless you want to give them a course of instruction (which they won't take from you anyway).

You see, if you run a website, you get all sorts of people write to you. Some of them are cranks. A lot of these have this massive sense of entitlement, that you have some kind of duty to respond to their nonsense. (I have some religious crank shrieking at me at the moment about "censure" -- he means "censor" -- because I'm blocking his irrelevant and unscholarly "comments" on my blog.) Very often they could discover the answers to their own "questions" on Google; or else they are obviously so daft that they wouldn't recognise a bus if it ran over them.

So what do you reply? You tell them to get an education before writing further. What else, sensibly, can you do?

From the look of it -- you don't post your own email, so it is hard to judge the reply -- that's what J. P. Holding has done.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

mountainman · 03-21-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I was wondering what the ad hominem is in this.

Holding's smugness. It's related to a "one true flock mentality".

Quote:

...don't be surprised if all the Christians ... do is howl with laughter.

Splarnst · 03-21-2012, 09:04 PM

Easy win? No, it's much more trouble than it's worth.

DoubtingDave · 03-22-2012, 04:28 AM

his reply. http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...54#post3381854 As predicted, it is indeed full of ad hominems.

jdl · 03-22-2012, 05:06 AM

J.P. Holding is certainly capable of ad hominems, but in this case he's merely engaging in insults, which though childish is sadly not a logical fallacy.

DoubtingDave · 03-22-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdl

J.P. Holding is certainly capable of ad hominems, but in this case he's merely engaging in insults, which though childish is sadly not a logical fallacy.

The ad hominems are a fallacy. Either way, it discredits him as a person.

View our thread here: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...&p=3382331#top

Keith&Co. · 03-22-2012, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockOfAtheism

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdl

J.P. Holding is certainly capable of ad hominems, but in this case he's merely engaging in insults, which though childish is sadly not a logical fallacy.

The ad hominems are a fallacy. Either way, it discredits him as a person.

If i say you're wrong, and you're ugly, that's not ad hom.
if i say you're wrong, because you're ugly, that's ad hom.

He's dismissive, insulting and superior, but i don't see any ad hominem.

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03-21-2012, 12:25 PM	#2
Switch89 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Montgomery, AL Posts: 453	When will people learn that this fool isn't worth dealing with? It seems like just about everybody has to learn that on their own. He's a fundamentalist dumbass who excels at rationalizing the problems with the bible, a crank wannabe "researcher," and in general a nobody. So I say leave him alone and don't worry about him. If you really wanted to do some good, I'd say you should expose some of his sloppy scholarship and email it to as many of his financial supporters as you can. But even that is not likely to do any good.

03-21-2012, 09:04 PM	#6
Splarnst Contributor Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 13,161	Easy win? No, it's much more trouble than it's worth.

03-22-2012, 04:28 AM	#7
DoubtingDave Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Conowingo, Maryland Posts: 577	his reply. http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...54#post3381854 As predicted, it is indeed full of ad hominems.

03-22-2012, 05:06 AM	#8
jdl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auckland Posts: 85	J.P. Holding is certainly capable of ad hominems, but in this case he's merely engaging in insults, which though childish is sadly not a logical fallacy.

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