Johnny Skeptic

That is cute. Not only do Persians live in Iran, not in Iraq, but according to a web site at http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohisto...pages/651.html, "Arabs constitute the majority in Iraq and the second largest group of Iraqi migrants to Chicago." At any rate, even if you were right that Persians live in Iraq, it would be easy to import some Arabs from other places. Of course, you already knew that, which invites the question "Why did you make a ridiculous argument like that?" I've got it, as an evasive tactic, but your evasive tactic did not work. Part of Isaiah 13:19-20 says that no Arab will ever pitch his tent in Babylon. That part of the prophecy would be easy to overturn. Of course, since your interpretation of the Babylon prophecy is a very small minority opinion even among fundamentalist Christian laymen, and even moreso among fundamentalist Christian scholars, including the writers of Bible commentaries, any rational person knows that they should reject your arguments. If your challenge had any merits, surely at least one prominent Christian would be making it, but such is not the case. How do you account for that?

Any rational person would know that if a God exists, and wants people to believe that he exists as a specific being, he would show up in person and provide all kinds of useful evidence. That would certainly be much more convincing than any evidence that you could ever come up with. Isn't that correct? Why send a young boy to do a man's work?

Bertie_2007

I will state that I am a theist but I do not proseletyse. I see prophecies as being not predictions, but statements about future happenings. Over 300 prophecies were fulfilled in the birth, life and death of Jesus Christ. There are no other sacred writings that contain prophecies. I believe that this is God's authentication of His Word, that proves it to be true and absolute. "I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things." Isaiah45:6-7

Johnny Skeptic

300 fulfilled prophecies? Please post one fulfilled prophecy and we can discuss it. Regarding Isaiah 45:6-7, are you an inerrantist? If so, what evidence do you have that the Bible is inerrant? If not, why did you quote the Bible?

-Jay-

Lee, this is not an explanation. It's an apologetic excuse. And not a very interesting one at that. Would you care to try again?

Then overturn it.

Again. This is not an explanation, it is an excuse.

regards,

NinJay

Johnny Skeptic

Was that a joke? If so, it was a poor one. It is an absurd notion that God turned his back on most of the people in the world for thousands of years, and out of the blue sky out of the goodness of his heart decided that he wanted the Gospel message to be spread to their entire world, but not until after hundreds of millions of people died without hearing it. Am I correct that you do not have any idea what God's motives are?

I am willing to accept your concession of defeat regarding the Babylon prophecy any time that you would like to make it. Very few fundamentalist Christians other than you would be willing to defend a position that only a relative handful of fundamentalist Christian laymen hold. I am not aware of one single prominent fundamentalist Christian source that agrees with you. Are you?

Didn't you get your false interpretation of the Babylon prophecy from Josh McDowell? If so, that explains a lot.

Jack the Bodiless

It has already been overturned: by the failure of the Babylon prophecy, and by many other examples of failed prophecy, scientific and historical error, internal contradictions, and other absurdities. So who are these people who you believe to be still waiting for the Bible to be overturned?

Can you think of a single person who wants the Bible to be overturned, but doesn't know that it already has been overturned?
Ah, but there aren't any verifiably-fulfilled prophecies in the Bible.

...Which is a major problem for apologists. There is indeed plenty of internal evidence that "fulfilled prophecy" should be taken as a sign of divine inspiration: but God then forgot to include some actual examples that could be checked. Religions that don't attempt to engage in prophecy are actually in a better position: they don't provide the means of their own refutation like this.

-Jay-

Pick one of the 300 and let's roll with it.
Do you realize that the overwhelming majority of scholars do not consider the Gospels to be eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus, but rather accounts written decades after the events they purport to describe?

Do you realize that the view that the OT is a collection of prophecies or type statements about the life of Jesus is an interpretive construct developed after the time of Christ, and is in no way implied or indicated within the texts of the OT themselves?

It's not a stretch at all to suppose that mid to late 1^st century writers, needing to fill in details about Jesus' life that they did not know, went back to the OT, which they did have, and looked for things that might be interpreted to indicate the actions of a Messiah, so it's not surprising that the stories about Jesus in the Gospels have lots of parallels to OT verses.

It's not fulfilled prophecy - it's literary influence.

regards,

NinJay

shirley knott

Indeed.
We can say with perfect and unchallengable accuracy that there simply is no such thing as prophecy. It is a non-concept, at best a redundant term, at worst, a dishonest one.

To repeat, there is not a single instance of prophecy to be found anywhere in the world. ALL recourse to prophecy is special pleading or question-begging. Without exception.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

lee_merrill

Sure...

"For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession."

"The Lord did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath he swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt." (Dt. 7:6-8)

Well, it's been tried, Alexander the Great and Saddam both tried, and could have done it, and failed, so I'm a bit cautious about trying myself. However, there are those who don't believe in God, and are motivated to disprove the evangelical Christian claim that Scripture is inerrant, this is their opportunity.

lee_merrill

Still looking for the address of the mayor of Babylon.

The people who argue so earnestly that Scripture is not divine? Now they have indeed concluded that the Bible is overturned, only it seems now they want to convince the Christians. In which case, I recommend a course that is indisputable, such as doing what the Bible says cannot be done, as in undeniably reinhabiting Babylon.