stephan huller

This image is a part of a letter written by Sabbatai Sevi in the summer of 1666 and copied by the Ma’aminim in Salonika. According to the scholar Yaron Ben-Naeh, this copy was probably written around 1800.

In this previously unknown letter, Sabbatai Sevi advocated turning the solemn fast day of Tisha B'Av commemorating the destruction of the Temple into a day of celebration now that he, the Messiah, had arrived.

Toto

Sabbatai Sevi is a little too modern for this forum, except that some people see him as a model for the historical Jesus. Robert M Price wrote an interesting piece on Sabbatai.

stephan huller

I thought it was interesting that the appearance of the messiah coincided with the cessation of mourning over the disappearance of the tabernacle. Dovetails nicely with Doherty's work on Hebrews.

Duvduv

I seem to remember that Gershom Scholem in his book mentioned several letters from Shabtai, although I don't recall this one. But he did say that Shabtai recanted on the 9th of Av celebration before he died, and told his followers to fast again. However, after he died the Donmeh resorted to eating a festive meal again. I'd have to go back to the book to find again what happened. Is there a translation of the letter itself, and a transcriptio into modern Hebrew script?

stephan huller

Yes but the same formula is present (= the disappearance of the tabernacle is no longer sad because the messiah is the tabernacle) which is of course odd because Jesus is generally acknowledged to have been active while the temple of Jerusalem was functioning. Why then do the followers of John fast? My guess is that this is all reinforced by the original context of a Samaritan and specifically Dosithean origin for the sect. They were mourning over the loss of the tabernacle on Mount Gerizim. The discussion with the 'Samaritan woman' as I noted in the other thread is with the feminine hypostasis who used to 'live' in the tabernacle.

Duvduv

I don't understand what you mean. The whole idea in Judaism of the Ninth of Av turning from a day of fasting to a day of feasting depends on the presence of the Messiah and the inevitable rebuilding of the Temple. So what does your point have to do with Shabtai Zvi?
The reason he recanted on the feasting was that it caused too much of an uproar among the Jewish communities. Gershom Scholem's book discusses this.