FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-28-2008, 08:47 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: California
Posts: 748
Default 1st Mention of Acts in Xian Lit.?

Does anyone know who the first Christian writer is who quotes or mentions by name the Book of Acts?

I often hear the argument from Christians that the gospels should be dated early because the abrupt ending of Acts seems to imply that it was written before the death of Paul (meaning that at least Luke had to have been written before that time and probably the other gospels as well). Yet, why do no early writers seem to be aware of its existence? Or are they?

Thanks
Roland is offline  
Old 02-28-2008, 10:09 PM   #2
Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: the fringe of the caribbean
Posts: 18,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
Does anyone know who the first Christian writer is who quotes or mentions by name the Book of Acts?

I often hear the argument from Christians that the gospels should be dated early because the abrupt ending of Acts seems to imply that it was written before the death of Paul (meaning that at least Luke had to have been written before that time and probably the other gospels as well). Yet, why do no early writers seem to be aware of its existence? Or are they?

Thanks
As far as I understand, Irenaeus was probably the first to mention Acts of the Apostles, in "Against Heresies", sometime around the end of the 2nd century.

Justin Martyr in his extant writings, around the middle of the 2nd century, never mentioned Acts of the Apostles, Paul, or letters to any of the Churches.
aa5874 is offline  
Old 02-28-2008, 10:17 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: California
Posts: 748
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by aa5874 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
Does anyone know who the first Christian writer is who quotes or mentions by name the Book of Acts?

I often hear the argument from Christians that the gospels should be dated early because the abrupt ending of Acts seems to imply that it was written before the death of Paul (meaning that at least Luke had to have been written before that time and probably the other gospels as well). Yet, why do no early writers seem to be aware of its existence? Or are they?

Thanks
As far as I understand, Irenaeus was probably the first to mention Acts of the Apostles, in "Against Heresies", sometime around the end of the 2nd century.

Justin Martyr in his extant writings, around the middle of the 2nd century, never mentioned Acts of the Apostles, Paul, or letters to any of the Churches.
Thanks for the info.
Roland is offline  
Old 02-29-2008, 12:09 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,397
Default

Maybe Irenaeus was just plugging his own book...
dog-on is offline  
Old 02-29-2008, 05:50 AM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,787
Default

Irenaeus is the earliest, to my knowledge, who can be securely dated. Within a span of about 20-25 years we have Irenaeus, the Muratorian canon, Clement of Alexandria, Hippolytus, and Tertullian.

We also have the anti-Marcionite prologues, but their date is uncertain. Shortly after Tertullian we have Origen.

Ben.
Ben C Smith is offline  
Old 02-29-2008, 06:04 AM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
Yet, why do no early writers seem to be aware of its existence? Or are they?
Remember that 99% of these writers are lost...

All the best,

Roger Pearse
Roger Pearse is offline  
Old 02-29-2008, 06:16 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol' England
Posts: 2,678
Default

How do they know it's 99%?
chrisengland is offline  
Old 02-29-2008, 08:07 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,397
Default

It sounds more authoritative than saying 1% were lost...
dog-on is offline  
Old 02-29-2008, 07:59 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On the path of knowledge
Posts: 8,889
Default

Do we actually have the writings of Irenaeus, the Muratorian canon, Clement of Alexandria, Hippolytus, Tertullian, and Origen? or are we only being fed with claimed "quotations" from their works by a much later church writer of questionable integrity and motives?
Can anyone produce the independent writings of these "sources", without having culled them from the claims found in a 4th century writers works?
Perhaps 99%, were "lost", because only 1% of those writings were ever actually originated with the authors that they were ascribed to?
Sheshbazzar is offline  
Old 02-29-2008, 09:16 PM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mondcivitan Republic
Posts: 2,550
Default

Whaaaaaat? Evey one of those works exists either intact or damn close to intact. The writers whose works are known from fragments (usually quotes in later authors) are the likes of Papias, Hegesippus, and Julius Africanus.

DCH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
Do we actually have the writings of Irenaeus, the Muratorian canon, Clement of Alexandria, Hippolytus, Tertullian, and Origen? or are we only being fed with claimed "quotations" from their works by a much later church writer of questionable integrity and motives?
Can anyone produce the independent writings of these "sources", without having culled them from the claims found in a 4th century writers works?
Perhaps 99%, were "lost", because only 1% of those writings were ever actually originated with the authors that they were ascribed to?
DCHindley is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:55 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.