spamandham

I am hoping to collectively* catalog all the phrases within the generally accepted genuine Pauline epistles, that point toward Jesus as being an earthly fleshy human of contemporary history (to Paul).

Along with this, I am hoping to collectively* argue whether each of the identified passages is:

a) properly translated
b) Very likely original
c) Likely original
d) Likely a later insertion
e) Very likely a later insertion

To get the ball rolling, I would like to simply refer to a post I made recently, that spawned this naive oddball idea, http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showpos...&postcount=101

* Yours and mine homework, not just mine.

aa5874

To do a proper analysis of any statement of the Pauline Epistles, a person MUST be reasonable certain of the status of Paul as a Christian, when he lived and wrote.

If a person does his homework on "Paul", it will soon be realised that it cannot be determined who "Paul" really was, except that he was not as the NT depicted.

From my homework:

• Paul"s conversion as stated in the NT is not true. (See Acts 9) "Paul" was probably not a Christian.

• The revelations of Jesus by Paul as stated in the NT are not true. (See the Pauline Epistles) "Paul" probably got all his information about Jesus from written text already available.

• "Paul" history as written in the NT is not true. "Paul" was probably not an evangelist.

• "Paul" did not live in the time zone as written in the NT. "Paul" was probably alive after Acts of the Apostle was written or later.

And to accept that a person called "Paul" wrote Epistles before the Fall of the Temple, in effect, requires that a person do NO homework.

gstafleu

Maybe this posting will help?

Gerard Stafleu

Clivedurdle

Superb analysis, that I think actually explains the power of xianity when it is being authentic, for example with let my people go and swing low sweet chariot.

The biggy that all humans face is that we are conscious of our own death.

But we also dream - we are living in two worlds - the real world and the transcendent world. Man does not live by bread alone. Without a vision the people perish.

Like the Ziggurats, we always attempt to bring together the gods and the day to day - elysian fields, nectar of the gods, holiness, the sacred, the garden of eden, contrasted with sin, death, law, spilt seed on the ground, humanity, messy life.

The gnostics and zoroastrians got this. The eschatologists got this - new heaven and a new earth.

Xianity is another attempt to bring together the sacred and profane and is thus a very powerful source of art, and myth, and struggle for justice.

Taking it literally is kind of blasphemous though!

DCHindley

Spam,

To do that, I think you will need a comprehensive list of Christological passages in context. You will find that the depiction of Christ sometimes varies one from another, between books as well as occasionally within a single book.

Contact me privately with an e-mail address and I can forward you a self-extracting ZIP file with each of the Pauline letters in RTF format.

The files, one for each Pauline letter except Hebrews, each consist of tables of two columns, in which Christological statements, even minute ones, are set apart in the right column, across from where they would be in the common text. There are also other digressions included in the right hand column, but Christological statements comprise the bulk of them.

The segregation was based on an analysis of the Pauline letters I performed about 12 years ago based on a Greek-English NT. Yes, I had a couple years of Greek in college, and at the time still remembered enough to be dangerous. The translation is RSV, slightly modified at times when the English translators did not follow the structure of the Greek clauses. These files date to May 31, 2003, except for an introductory file I just modified today.

I think you will find it interesting and informative to your project.

DCH

vid

DCHindley: Is there a reason why you won't make these documents public?

DCHindley

I am an elderly man (well, 52, but I feel REALLY old). I have grand plans, but have so far been stymied by job and lately health issues. Everything's been on hold since 2003.

When I graduated from college, in 1978, folks were amazed by TRS-80s and the Macintosh Apple just came out (they were about $5,000). I don't think the IBM PC came out until 1980. They didn't have hard disks, only floppies, and some like the "Trash 80" even used cassette tape players as the physical memory. The Internet as we know it was barely a gleam in someone's eye. I didn't even buy my first (used!) computer until 1989, an Epson Equity II with two 80186 chips instead of one of those expensive 80286 chips). I didn't find my way online until about 1993.

Oh, I can use software fine (use Excel and Word like a pro), but I still have to "eddycate" myself about web pages and how to find space to publish them, then get them uploaded there. This might seem like second nature to you "whipper-snappers", but you grew up with this.

There are also issues as to how to present the Greek text, without having to use an ASCII transliteration scheme but still make it easily editable. Fun, fun ...

DCH

spamandham

Actually, he does, but you have to ask for it. He sent them to me.

Ben C Smith

Hi, David.

I would be happy to host whatever you have on my website. (As you know, I already host your collection of TF references and, if memory serves, your comparison of Colossians and Ephesians.)

I could host them just as they are, or I could format them for you from rich text into whatever format might seem best (PDF, HTML... I would have to look at the files first), or both.

None of this would take away from you getting your own web hosting, which I also highly recommend. I am all in favor of using the internet as a backup tool, as well as for the sheer convenience of sharing information.

If not, that is just fine. But the offer stands. Right now I am on an extended vacation, and am hoping not to use the internet very much. But in about 2 weeks I could be available to do some formatting and hosting.

Cheers.

Ben.

DCHindley

Ben,

See my private e-mail to you. Enjoy your vacation!

DCH