aa5874

If one finds a text and is unable to determine its veracity then the description of all characters in the UNCONFIRMED TEXT is the DEFAULT position.

In gMark, for example, there is a character called Pilate. That is all.

When the events in gMark of "Pilate" are examined it is shown that a character called Jesus was brought before him to be tried.

The actions of Pilate in gMark are that of a MAN.

However, the actions of Jesus in gMark are those of a MYTH character.

In gMark Jesus WALKED on the sea, was BELIEVED to be a Spirit and TRANSFIGURED.

The actions of Jesus in gMark are NON-HUMAN.

It must be remembered that gMark is a story about Gods, Devils, Satan, Evil Spirits, and Holy Ghost.

ALL characters described as or acting as Gods, Devils, Satan, Evil Spirits and Holy Ghost are By DEFAULT EXACTLY as described.

God in gMark is the God of the Jews by DEFAULT.

Satan in gMark is the DEVIL by DEFAULT.

The Holy Ghost in gMark is a SPIRIT by DEFAULT.

Pilate in gMark is a man by DEFAULT.

Jesus in gMark is a PHANTOM by DEFAULT.

The veracity of the gMark story about Pilate and Jesus cannot be confirmed to be true BUT only Pilate can be corroborated by external non-apologetic sources as a figure of history.

Without any external corroboration from non-apologetic sources, Jesus MUST remain in the DEFAULT position as a Phantom like God, Satan, Evil Spirits and the Holy Ghost.

gMark's Jesus was a PHANTOM--gMark's God is the God of the Jews.

Chili

That all may sound right . . . but if hell is real [as a prolonged purification in Galilee until death] for the Jesus of Mark, who actually happily went back to Galilee in a hurry, are you then trying to say that hell is an illusion for phantoms while heaven is real for the Jesus of Luke and John and all the saints after that?

mountainman

From http://www.radikalkritik.de/in_engl.htm

Paraphrasing for Jesus .....


A bit more from Detering about the hypotheses of authenticity and inauthenticity of the letters of Paul. This is able to be applied to Jesus because he has been presented as an author by the historian of christian origins.


Hypothesis (A): Jesus was an historical identity.
Hypothesis (B): Jesus was a non historical phantom identity.

Logically only one of these hypotheses can be correct.
How do we tell which one it is?

What evidence is there in support of Hypothesis (A)? I personally have not found any such evidence from the 1st and 2nd centuries in any way convincing, and the reputation and integrity of the chronographer and historian for "christian origins" is seriously disputed by many.

aa5874

It would seem that people here think that developing an hypothesis about the existence or non-existence of Jesus is some kind of complex rocket-science beyond the scope of the ordinary man. Nothing can be further from the truth.

An hypothesis simple needs DATA and the validity or strength of the hypothesis falls or stands on the credibilty of that data.

1. Express any hypothesis.

2. Supply the data.

3. The data is NO good or unreliable.

4. The hypothesis is NO good.

5. The Data is credible or reliable.

6. The hypothesis is good.


Some hypothesize that there was an Historical Jesus.

Where is the DATA?

The data for HJ is in MYTH fables about the Child of a Ghost, that walked on water, Transfigued, Resurrected and Ascended in a cloud.

WTF. Give me a break.

The HJ hypothesis is JUNK.

On the other hand, some hypothesize Jesus was MYTH or non-historical.

Where is the DATA?

Well, let me see. All of gMark, All of gMatthew, All of gLuke, and All of gJohn.

So, what does gMark say about Jesus?

Jesus WALKED on the sea and Transfigured.

What about gMatthew.

Jesus was FATHERED by a Ghost.

What about gLuke, who was Jesus in gLuke?

The Holy thing of a Ghost.

And what about gJohn?

Jesus was God the Creator of heaven and earth.

The Myth Jesus hypothesis is EXTREMELY Good .

And what about the guy called Paul?

Paul, who?

Well, what did the Apologetic author of the so-called Epistles say about Jesus?

The Apologetic author said Jesus was NOT a man, that he did NOT get his gospel from man but from Jesus who was RAISED from the dead on the THIRD day.

The Apologetic author even claimed HE and over 500 people WITNESSED a resurrected Jesus.

The MYTH Jesus theory is WELL-SUPPORTED by the data.

WTF....the HJ hypothesis is JUNK.

It is that easy. An hypothesis just needs DATA.

The HJ Junk "hypothesis" has ZERO credible data.

Duvduv

From Irenaeus:
Those, therefore, who allege that He took nothing from the Virgin do greatly err, [since,] in order that they may cast away the inheritance of the flesh, they also reject the analogy [between Him and Adam]. For if the one [who sprang] from the earth had indeed formation and substance from both the hand and workmanship of God, but the other not from the hand and workmanship of God, then He who was made after the image and likeness of the former did not, in that case, preserve the analogy of man, and He must seem an inconsistent piece of work, not having wherewith He may show His wisdom. But this is to say, that He also appeared putatively as man when He was not man, and that He was made man while taking nothing from man. For if He did not receive the substance of flesh from a human being, He neither was made man nor the Son of man; and if He was not made what we were, He did no great thing in what He suffered and endured.57

Duvduv

aa5874, in "On the Flesh of Christ" did Tertullian believe his Christ was a ghost or a physical fleshly being? See especially his chapter 8.

Chili

Christ is Truth in substance so that beauty can be a commodity expressed in poetry and once again hit home to Christ in us.