steve_bnk

For people in my generation movies like the Ten Comandments with Charleton Heston's portrayal of a stiff montone serious Moses probably has influenced perceptions of the Jewish people more than anything. They were a vibrant dynmamic poetic people. They likley weren't walking around speaking in the stiff mock formality of Old English interpretauve idioms with thees and thous.

andrewcriddle

Caligula sought c 40 CE to have his image venerated in the Jerusalem Temple. This episode has probably helped shape the present form of Mark 13.

Andrew Criddle

aa5874

But, by the time gMark was written, Jesus would have been already known to have been a false prophet and a blasphemer.

It must be remembered that Jesus had predicted that he would be raised from the dead after three days and was the son of God.

It would have been extremely remarkable for people to be taking the proven failed words of Jesus seriously 30 years after his false claim that he would be resurrected.

mountainman

Jesus became political when Constantine found him and gave Jesus a big promotion. The emperor Julian stated the situation in the following manner:

As for Constantine, he could not discover among the gods
the model of his own career, but when he caught sight of
Pleasure, who was not far off, he ran to her. She received
him tenderly and embraced him, then after dressing him in
raiment of many colours and otherwise making him beautiful,
she led him away to Incontinence.

There too he found Jesus, who had taken up his abode with
her and cried aloud to all comers:

"He that is a seducer, he that is a murderer,
he that is sacrilegious and infamous,
let him approach without fear!
For with this water will I wash him
and will straightway make him clean.

And though he should be guilty
of those same sins a second time,
let him but smite his breast and beat his head
and I will make him clean again."

To him Constantine came gladly, when he had conducted his
sons forth from the assembly of the gods. But the avenging
deities none the less punished both him and them for their
impiety, and extracted the penalty for the shedding of the
blood of their kindred, [96] until Zeus granted them a respite
for the sake of Claudius and Constantius. [97]

Kronia, Emperor Julian, c.361 CE

ApostateAbe

I am interested. Do you happen to know where I can find more information on that?

arnoldo

Are you arguing that there was a HJ who was crucified yet failed to resurrect from the dead or that it was a failed prophecy because there was no one to make the prophecy to begin with? :huh:

aa5874

I am pointing out the massive flaws in the HJ theory. Once it is claimed Jesus was just a man then he could have only been considered to be a blasphemer and a false prophet.

Once Jesus was just a man and taught his disciples that he would be raised from the dead on the third day and did admit at the trial that he was the son of God, then it would have been realised within 72 hours that Jesus was a fraud.

Once it is admitted that his disciples ran away and were at some point hiding in a house after he was arrested and that Peter denied any association with Jesus and that Jesus was not raised from the dead, then there is no gospel story.

The Pauline writings are useless if HJ was abandoned by the disciples and did not resurrect.

HJ is a massively flawed unrealistic theory.

andrewcriddle

For information about Caligula's plans for erecting his image in the Jerusalem temple see josephus antiquities 18 and Philo Embassy to Gaius

Andrew Criddle

NB These texts refer to Caligula by his true name Caius/Gaius.

show_no_mercy

Ιt's also interesting to note that he was assassinated before he could follow through with it. If he had done it, the Jews would have probably went to war with Rome 26 years earlier than what history records.

Antiochus IV set up a statue of Zeus in the temple and the Jews went to war with the Greeks (and their Hellenized Jewish sycophants) over it. The Roman Emperor Hadrian set up a statue of Jupiter on the sacred ground of the temple and again 300 years later and the Jews went to war with Rome over it; even though they had their asses handed to them two times prior (1st Jewish/Roman war and the Kitos War). Both were "abominations" (the Hebrew word is interchangeable with "idol") that caused desolation.

No doubt Gaius attempting to deify himself and erect a statue in his likeness in the temple would have infuriated the entire Judean populace. Though if Jesus is talking about Gaius and his potentially desolating abomination, then he would have to be alive sometime in the late 30s or very early 40s (40, 41). According to Josephus, this was around the time John the Baptist was imprisoned and killed.

DCHindley

If you are interested in putting the sources Andrew has given into sharper historical perspective, a complete review of the Caligula affair can be found in the revised edition of E Schuerer's History of the Jewish People in the Age of Jesus Christ, volume 1 (1973), pages 394-398. There is a nice timeline in the footnotes on page 397 (5/6 of the whole page). I wouldn't try to buy this volume (the price is outrageous as it is kinda out of print) but folks should be able to find it at a county or university library. Have fun ...

DCH