FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-03-2004, 10:04 PM   #1
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 15,576
Default Yeshua ben Pandera

I would be interested in knowing more about this personage/story. Would someone be willing to discuss his role in Jewish history and how it affects Christianity?
Soul Invictus is offline  
Old 05-04-2004, 12:19 AM   #2
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

AFIAK Jesus ben Pandera is a fictional character in the Talmud, of no importance in Jewish history. There is some claim that the stories about him are an indirect reference to the Christian Jesus, and that "ben Pandera" is supposed to refer to his being the illegitimate child of Miriam (Mary) and a Roman Soldier. Some historicists try to use the references in the Talmud as evidence for a historical Jesus, but most reject this, as the writings are late and are not historical, and could have just been reactions to the Christian legend.

You can read more here:

Did Jesus Live 100 B.C.?
Toto is offline  
Old 05-04-2004, 02:21 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Invictus
I would be interested in knowing more about this personage/story. Would someone be willing to discuss his role in Jewish history and how it affects Christianity?
Celsus (writing in 2nd C CE) is quoted by Origen as saying that Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier called "Pandera", so was "Jesus Ben Pandera".
GakuseiDon is offline  
Old 05-05-2004, 11:08 AM   #4
CX
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Portlandish
Posts: 2,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GakuseiDon
Celsus (writing in 2nd C CE) is quoted by Origen as saying that Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier called "Pandera", so was "Jesus Ben Pandera".
Which only tells us that this story was circulating by the time of Celsus. It could be that the story of Jesus being the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier predates the gospels and that the infancy narratives are a direct response to that claim. I imagine the following conversation...


Jew: Jesus couldn't have been the messiah he was a half-breed bastard. Joseph just covered up for Mary because he didn't want her to get stoned.

AMt: No no no. He wasn't illegitimate at all. It's just that he was miraculously conceived because he was the son of god. You know how people make up stories.

Jew: What!?!? Where did you get that idea? I've never heard that.

AMt: Um...well...it's all in my book.

Jew: Riiiiiiiiggggghhht.
CX is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:13 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.