Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 03-17-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

My "Buddy" Glenn Morton also doesn't believe the flood was global.

But he also says that a global flood could not have occured in Mesopotamia, which contradicts your other source Dr. Hugh Ross, who says that a localized flood occured in Mesopotamia. Which of your sources do you actually support? If you support Morton, who, as a geogphysicist, probably knows more about geology than Ross does since Ross is an astronomer, please tell us where the ark landed. The Bible says that the ark landed on Mt. Ararat. Mt. Ararat is in Mesopotamia.

Would you like to discuss the localized flood myth further at the Evolution/Creation forum? Yes, I said "myth" since that it was it is.

Johnny Skeptic · 03-17-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

If genesis teaches the earth is only 6,000 years old.

Consider the following estimates regarding the age of the earth:

6,000 years
10,000 years
50,000 years
100,000 years
millions of years
billions of years

Which of those estimates appeals to you the most, and why?

archaeologist · 03-17-2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Nice vacuous claim. But it is still funny how we get all those details right on the trajectory from earth to Mars, and then get the landing right from 40 million miles away; but just can't get those rings figured out right...

Pulease...thatis the worst comment yet. For example--you can chart your path to the store that you took last week and it would be accurate but try and date the same trip.

Quote:

The Bible also teaches that the world is only 6,000 years old

No it doesn't. All it says is --'In the beginning...' please provide the book, chapter and verse where the Bible teaches the world is 6,000 years old.

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Your buddy Dr. Hugh Ross certainly doesn't

Hugh Ross is NOT my buddy. For the former sentence see immediately above

Quote:

If you support Morton, who, as a geogphysicist, probably knows more about geology than Ross does since Ross is an astronomer, please tell us where the ark landed. The Bible says that the ark landed on Mt. Ararat. Mt. Ararat is in Mesopotamia.

Haven't read Morton and i support the Bible and the Bile says 'MOUNTAINS OF Ararat not Mount Ararat. Which is in TURKEY not Mesopotamia.

spin · 03-17-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

All it says is --'In the beginning...' please provide the book, chapter and verse where the Bible teaches the world is 6,000 years old.

You seem to be ignoring information. I dated the flood using cited biblical information. It is a simple extension of the same sort of biblical data to get to when Adam was born and he was born on the sixth day, wasn't he?

The bible provides you with dating information throughout the text. You won't get a single verse and you shouldn't expect anything of the sort, but the evidence is there that allows you to know how it develops chronology. (See my previous post on biblical dating of the flood.)

spin

temporalillusion · 03-17-2010, 10:27 PM

But spin, you aren't following the Holy Spirit's guidance on which parts of the Bible are just an accurate account and which ones are true!

sdelsolray · 03-17-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

A precise date makes it easier to evaluate the truth of the claim. When Bishop Ussher drew up his time line of all creation, it wasn't for any moral lesson. It was because he valued knowledge for its own sake. That is generally the inscrutable attitude of scholars. Modern geologists, archaeologists, historians, cosmologists and evolutionary biologists give their dates for the same reason.

Yet itis impossible to provide an eact date for the flood, all pre-flood pottery was destroyed and all post-flood was not made on a large scale for many, many years rendering that system useless and with all the samples corrupted it would bedifficult to date any flood artifact (if you could find one) using any other dating system

Ussher was an idiot and did no one any favors. He did not evenknow how the Biblical writers wrote the geneologies which renders his calculations worthless.

modern geologists, etc., have no clue and are only guessing and why would you include evolutionary biologists? Their views do not include a flood so their commets and studies belong in the trash.

God does not provide a date, you will not find one for the flood.

Quote:

What is the lesson of the mythical flood?

As if you didn't already know: Sin will be punished and those who follow Him will be saved. The former comment would have to be applied to all governments who execute criminals if you apply it to God. God gets to judge and punish as He sees fit and that does not make Him a mass murderer.

You make many claims. You assume your mere faith in your claims is a strength. It is a weakness.

You are dealing with rational thinking adults.

spin · 03-17-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

Ussher was an idiot and did no one any favors. He did not evenknow how the Biblical writers wrote the geneologies which renders his calculations worthless.

:down:

What an utterly facile analysis. You show no knowledge of Ussher and his achievement. You produce no evidence to discredit him. Working several hundred years ago he was a great scholar of his time and you have the temerity to make ignorant analyses that he was an idiot. He was being honest and literal with his text. I would like you to be the same. And stop insulting the dead for no purpose.

spin

lpetrich · 03-17-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

Yet there are no 5,000 year old trees in existence, last i heard the Joshua tree was the oldest one and it did not reach back that far.

Some bristlecone pines go back nearly 5000 years -- these are the oldest unitary organisms known. Clonal organisms can live even longer. In fact, the roots of a clonal plant can outlive each of that plant's stems by some enormous factor.

List of long-living organisms

Quote:

here is one but it fails as they only point to the root system not tree rings and the picture clearly shows it does not have 5,000 rings:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...dest-tree.html

It's a clonal organism. Its age is estimated from its rate of spreading. It's no problem for tree-ring dating, because that's not worked out by using such tree clones.

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So much for the tree ring idea.

For tree-ring chronology, one uses multiple trees and correlates their tree-ring variations to assemble a combined record. This is now complete back to 8000 BCE -- about 10,000 years ago.

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Scientists can't even deciopher the cave art in the french caves, what make syou think they could decipher a pictograph on dinosaur bones?

One does not need to decipher it -- all one needs is whether or not it looks like an existing writing system.

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problem is, there is no puzzle. God spoke, it was. very simple.

How did you figure that out? Were you there? Did you hear God's words?

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How are radiocarbon, tree rings, lake varves, and ice layers "fallible", "corrupt", and "manipulatable"? They can't be worse than the Bible, which has a LOT of demonstrated errancy.

All based upon conjecture, assumption and not real observation and constructed by men who are subject to bribes, pressure, fame, plus sin and their own errancy. plus so much more.

archaeologist, I dare you to prove it.

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When they have hardly ever submitted anything to some mainstream journal?

There is a lot you do not know about this situation and you forget that evolutionsits are very much like muslims (when they have their prophet drawn as a cartoon character). {I knew about the man who faced retribution from fellow evolutionists for printing an article they didn't like inis magazine long before the documentery exposed came out}

archaeologist, do you have any EVIDENCE for your claim that evolution supporters are willing to lynch any creationist who submits a creationist paper to a mainstream journal?

MarkA · 03-18-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:
Why is it so difficult for you to answer a very simple question?

it is not difficult, it is a frivolous question, one which you already know the answer.\

How does a flood destroy pottery? Please answer the question and do not assume I know the answer.

Johnny Skeptic · 03-18-2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

All based upon conjecture, assumption and not real observation and constructed by men who are subject to bribes, pressure, fame, plus sin and their own errancy. Plus so much more.

But even many Christians know that a global flood did not occur. Do you have any evidence that the Bible is inerrant?

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03-17-2010, 10:27 PM	#75
temporalillusion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 2,001	But spin, you aren't following the Holy Spirit's guidance on which parts of the Bible are just an accurate account and which ones are true!

03-18-2010, 12:03 AM	#79
MarkA Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 89	Quote: Why is it so difficult for you to answer a very simple question? it is not difficult, it is a frivolous question, one which you already know the answer.\ How does a flood destroy pottery? Please answer the question and do not assume I know the answer.

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