Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MadMez · 03-15-2010, 05:09 PM

I've spent a couple hours looking and have yet to find the above.

There's probably an obvious place to look, but I lack the spark to find it. I'm sick and it's been a long day at work, OK?

So when is it biblically supposed to have happened? I'm in a little discussion with a fundie here and he has yet to cough it out.

I'm like "So when do you think the flood happened?"

And he's all "You know there are disagreements among scientists about carbon dating?"

So I'm like "OK, but when do you think it happened?"

An he's all "All geological formations can be explained by the upheaval of the flood!"

And I'm like "Cool, so when did it happen?"

And he's "Let me know when you have the answers to my questions!"

And I'm like "Fuck it."

Is there a concensus among creationists? Sorry almost LOL'd when typing that but, hey there might be.

Eldarion Lathria · 03-15-2010, 05:22 PM

There's only one reasonable date for ye Fludde, NEVER!

Eldarion Lathria

Deus Ex · 03-15-2010, 05:23 PM

2348 BCE.

Toto · 03-15-2010, 05:36 PM

Biblical Chronolgy

Quote:

Although the fundamental premise of the creationist approach emphasized the infallibility of literal reading of the bible, few were as aware as those who hold the bible as a daily guide to their lives that the good book was rife with improbabilities and in some cases outright contradictions. Whitcomb and Morris, in one of those necessary departures from literal reading of the scriptures that nonetheless surprise anyone trying to follow their reasoning, concluded that the traditional Ussher flood date of 2450 BC (or its variant of 2459 BC) is probably too recent. On the other hand, noting the similarity of the Sumerian and Biblical flood stories, they consider it impossible that the flood could be vastly older than the stories because the Sumerian version (having been passed on by mere oral tradition, rather than having its truth covered by a divine assurance) was so strikingly similar to the biblical account; surely it would never have retained its similarity to the biblical story if the two traditions had bifurcated many thousands of years before their respective recordings in the first millennium B.C.

Morris quotes one authority who places the date at 3835 BC (based on Abraham birth date of 2167 BC and 1688 years elapsed time between birth of Abraham and flood (John Urquhart, How Old is Man, 1904 Morris p 481)) Elsewhere Morris suggests that the date was in excess of 5000 years ago, though he allowed that some interpretations suggesting that as much as 5000 years had elapsed between the deluge and Abram, which pushes the date of the flood as far back as 7000 BC, stretched the limits of Genesis "almost to the breaking point."

Most ingenious of the recent creationist claims have been those of G.E. Aardsma whose recent paper (Radio carbon and Biblical Chronology ) argues that the Ussher chronology (flood at 2350 B.C.) is too short by exactly a millennium. According to this interpretation, Kings 6:1 should read "1480 years" not "480 years," Aardsma believes; correction of this apparent clerical error would then push Usshers flood date back to 3350 B.C.

MadMez · 03-15-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Biblical Chronolgy

Perfect! Thanks!

DCHindley · 03-15-2010, 08:14 PM

According to Seder Olam Rabbah, which is the basis for most Jewish Chronologies, puts the year of the flood at between the years of the world 1656 & 1658, which would correspond to 2104/3 BCE.

Bishop Ussher calculated it to be 2349 BC.

Eusebius (according to Jerome's Latin Version of it) places it at 2958 BC.

Hippolytus of Rome (if I'm calculating this correctly) puts it at about 3262 BC.

Julius Africanus (again, if I'm calculating correctly) puts it about 3240 BC.

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMez

I've spent a couple hours looking and have yet to find the above.

There's probably an obvious place to look, but I lack the spark to find it. I'm sick and it's been a long day at work, OK?

So when is it biblically supposed to have happened?

archaeologist · 03-15-2010, 08:59 PM

It happened after the birth of Noah and before the tower of Babel incident.

The actual date is not important and is really a distraction from the lesson sbeing taught in those chapters.

Why is it so important for you to know the exact date?

Earl IV · 03-15-2010, 09:03 PM

Would one of those "lessons" be that god is a mass murderer?

ApostateAbe · 03-15-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

It happened after the birth of Noah and before the tower of Babel incident.

The actual date is not important and is really a distraction from the lesson sbeing taught in those chapters.

Why is it so important for you to know the exact date?

A precise date makes it easier to evaluate the truth of the claim. When Bishop Ussher drew up his time line of all creation, it wasn't for any moral lesson. It was because he valued knowledge for its own sake. That is generally the inscrutable attitude of scholars. Modern geologists, archaeologists, historians, cosmologists and evolutionary biologists give their dates for the same reason.

Johnny Skeptic · 03-15-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

The actual date is not important and is really a distraction from the lesson being taught in those chapters.

What is the lesson of the mythical flood?

03-15-2010, 05:09 PM	#1
MadMez Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bend, OR, USA Posts: 360	Ye Date of Ye Floode I've spent a couple hours looking and have yet to find the above. There's probably an obvious place to look, but I lack the spark to find it. I'm sick and it's been a long day at work, OK? So when is it biblically supposed to have happened? I'm in a little discussion with a fundie here and he has yet to cough it out. I'm like "So when do you think the flood happened?" And he's all "You know there are disagreements among scientists about carbon dating?" So I'm like "OK, but when do you think it happened?" An he's all "All geological formations can be explained by the upheaval of the flood!" And I'm like "Cool, so when did it happen?" And he's "Let me know when you have the answers to my questions!" And I'm like "Fuck it." Is there a concensus among creationists? Sorry almost LOL'd when typing that but, hey there might be.

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03-15-2010, 05:22 PM	#2
Eldarion Lathria Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlantis Posts: 2,449	There's only one reasonable date for ye Fludde, NEVER! Eldarion Lathria

03-15-2010, 05:23 PM	#3
Deus Ex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,348	2348 BCE.

03-15-2010, 08:59 PM	#7
archaeologist Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: somewhere overseas Posts: 153	It happened after the birth of Noah and before the tower of Babel incident. The actual date is not important and is really a distraction from the lesson sbeing taught in those chapters. Why is it so important for you to know the exact date?

03-15-2010, 09:03 PM	#8
Earl IV Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Somewhere between lost and hopelessly lost Posts: 6,336	Would one of those "lessons" be that god is a mass murderer?

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