arcadia

What are the earliest/best sources for this story? Is it possible that it is simply successful early Christian propaganda that has become received truth?

I was surprised at that possibility.

Alethias

I think you'll likely get better and more authoritative answers to this question in the Biblical Criticism & History Forum, so I'm moving this thread there.

SwordOfTruth,
GRD Moderator

TomboyMom

Yeah, often in other threads Christians have used the martyrdom of the early Christians as a (fallacious) argument in favor of biblical truth, as in, why they all have been willing to die for a falsehood? I have often wondered how much truth there is to the underlying claim; were many early Christians killed for their religious beliefs? If so, by whom? Were other people of other religious faiths killed by the same people?

voodoomage

The "who would die for lies" claim is ridiculous, because folks die for lies all the time. The muslims and the christians can't both be right.

From what I've read, the claims of early church persecution were rather paltry. Tacitus documents that Nero persecuted christians after the burning of rome - including burning at the stake and feeding to lions and dogs, but outside of one insane emperor, christian persecution was relatively light.

So, I believe Tacitus is the earliest source of roman persecution of christians. The number of persecuted christians was inflated/exaggerated by the church, but they still happened. Maybe a more educated individual could provide a more concrete answer?

Haran

If you are talking specifically about Christians being fed to lions, then I am not sure. I would also be interested in the earliest sources for this. There are extra-biblical records by at least Tacitus and Pliny that mention persecutions, and I believe there are records of Diocletian's persecution of Christians.

Anything is possible. Some of the martyrdom accounts were probably "propaganda", though I would prefer to call them inspirational stories about the depth of faith found in some early Christians.

Why?

I agree with others that Christians should not use the argument that Christianity must be true because so many people died for it. The fact is that people will die for things that they whole-heartedly believe to be true. Many modern examples can be shown.... If you are a Christian, then don't use this argument or it will backfire on you. One is a Christian by faith...no proof is necessary. Someone either accepts that in you or you ask them to prove to you why you should not beleive. If they are interested in why you believe what you believe, then share. There is no need to defend your faith to anyone but yourself. It is a matter between you and God.

DBT

Tacitus - one of the first mentions in a non-Christian source of Christianity.

"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired."

Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."

Roger Pearse

Tertullian, Apologeticum, chapter 40, verse 2. ca. 197:

Si Tiberis ascendit in moenia, si Nilus non ascendit in arva, si caelum stetit, si terra movit, si fames, si lues, statim "Christianos ad leonem!" adclamatur. Tantos ad unum?

If the Tiber rises so high that it soaks the walls, if the Nile does not rise so high that it soaks the fields, if the earth opens, if the heavens don't, if there is famine, if there is a plague, instantly the howl goes up, "The Christians to the lion!" All of them, to a single lion?

http://www.tertullian.org/latin/apologeticus.htm#40_1
http://www.tertullian.org/anf/anf03/anf03-05.htm#40_1

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Clivedurdle

How much was persecution and how much legitimate (if horrific) punishment for, for example treason by not worshipping the roman gods - ie not accepting the authority of rome?

But are not medieval torture methods of the inquisition worse?

Clivedurdle

from link above.

That statement by itself is not conducive to the good order of the state. Nowadays we use phrases like breach of the peace and incitement...

Malachi151

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/apostles.html#papias