tdcanam

Eeewwww, hope that didn't make me sound churchy.

I like books.

fromdownunder

Please note that the original thread that I quoted from was split from the original discussion and is now contained here:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=163287

Could a Mod. either combine these threads or trash this one? Merge completed

Thanks

Norm

PhilosopherJay

Hi Diogenes,

In my book, Evolution of Christs and Christianities, I demonstrate/suggest that the letters of Ignatius were originally intended to be letters by the apostle Paul. I don't suggest in the book who wrote them, but I am now fairly sure that Eusebius is responsible for part of them. It is only during his time that the ideal of unflinching loyalty to bishops (an important theme in the letters) makes sense. Before his time Bishops could adopt any heresy they fancied without penalty. It would have been ridiculous to tell people to unquestioningly obey the bishop of a church, when that Bishop could be leading his church into heresy.

However it is the style of Eusebius to forge/change passages in works and not entire works, so some parts of the letters of Ignatius may be prior to the Fourth century. There is no reason to place them as early as the Second century.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

fromdownunder

Since we have now knocked your dating of Matthew out of the picture, do you wish to go through every book of the New Testament one at a time to validate your claim that they were both written when you said they were written and by eyewitnesses who knew Jesus?

You can pick the first one if you like! I don't care, but you are the one making the claim, so you must provide the evidence. Pick any book you like and provide evidence that it was written by a witness. Please do not resort to "I saw it happen" from the Bible itself. Edgar Rice Burroughs used this sort of thing very effectively, but no one accepts that Tarzan existed, John Carter went to Mars, David Innes went to Pellucidar or Carson went to Venus.

You have already made claims of "fact" about three books, and backed off, when your evidence was found out to be incorrect, so let's try for four.

Norm

Spanky

Those are some excellent RPG names. Thanks a million! I can now create a new player on Oblivion.
Oops, wrong forum! Dope!

Sven

Since when is preaching allowed in the upper fora? :huh:

Sure. I've also lost every single argument with a wall I've ever undertaken.

Diogenes the Cynic

Carin Nel, could you please confine your participation inthis thread to the subject at hand (i.e defending your claims about the authorship of the Gospels) and leave your witnessing out of it? This forum does not exist for the purposes of proselytization, witnessing or preaching.

Thank you,
DtC, Moderator, BC&H

Luci

Caren, is it the same Mel Tari who was found guilty in a court of law, and ordered to pay approximately $1.1 million for fraud?

http://ctlibrary.com/14399

Carin Nel

Hi Peter

Oh yes, I would love to do it should I get a fair chance. I appreciate comments, I don't mind to apologize if I've used fiction for evidence without knowing it! (3 times by fromdownunder) ; good advice is welcome and sincere discussions loved!
As this threat was rerouted from the evolution forum, you may not have followed the discussion where I had to "explain" the meaning of "intelligent" as in "intelligent personal Creator" over and over to the amusement of some of the members of the forum. I thought proving that the NT was authentic would prove to them that Jesus was Who He said He was, and then show them that He actually was the Creator of the universe. (By the way, Peter, I don't want to "score conversions," it's not my job.)
As you know, the whole thread ended up (in another forum!) in an argument about the date when the gospel according to Mathew was written.
Is everybody in agreement that Mathew was indeed the author of the Gospel according to Mathew?
Fromdownunder, do you also agree, mmm?
By the way, my source is the DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE by Finis Jennings Dake.
Regards
Carin

Julian

I doubt you will find many here who will agree to that. The canonical gospels were anonymous with their names attached to them much later in the 2nd century.

Julian