Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Carin Nel · 04-22-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fromdownunder

You are really are painting a hole for yourself here. Not one verse in the NT was written by an eye witness.

At best, Paul, who never met the living Jesus wrote his letters in the late 40-50'sCE, and the Gospels were written, at the earliest at least 70CE, about 40 years after Jesus was , according to them, crucified. They were also written by unknown authors, and names tagged on to them at a much later date.

Do you not know this?

Norm

The book of Mathew was written in 37 AD by.......MATHEW, a publican, one of the twelve apostles, and brother of James.(Luk. 6:16)
The book of Mark was written by....John MARK, disciple of Jesus, and nephew of Barnabas (Acts 12:12) appr. 57 - 63 AD.
The book of Luke was written by .....LUKE, the beloved physician ( Col. 4:14) in 68 - 63 AD, and disciple of Jesus, and perhaps he was the Lucius in Rom. 16:21 and if so, he was related to Paul.
The book of John was written by......JOHN, the beloved disciple of Jesus ( John 13:23; 19:26; 20:2) Present with James and and brother of James Peter on several occasions. Present at the trial, at the tomb and on other occasions. Wrote the gospel, 1, 2, 3 John, and Revelation.
Written 90 AD.
The Book of Acts were written by LUKE about 63 AD.(Lk. 1:1-3)
The Books of Romans, 1 + 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 + 2 Thessalonians 1 + 2 Timithy, Titus and Hebrew (?) were all written by PAUL
The book of James were written by....JAMES, the half-brother of Jesus Christ (Mat. 18:55;Mk. 6:3; Gal. 1:19) Mary had other children after Jesus was born. (Lk. 8 :19) This one was not the one called Zebedee (Mt. 4:21) or Alphaeus (Lk. 24:10) Jesu's brothers did not believe on Him until after the resurrection (Jn. 7:5) but the other 2 James' did. This James expereanced a special appearance of Christ, but is not classed as an apostle. The other 2 were apostles.
The book of 1 + 2 Peter were written by.......PETER, also called Simon and Cephas (Mt. 2:2; 1 Peter 1:1), one of the apostles. It was written from Babylon in about 60 AD.
The book of Jude was written by ...JUDE, half-brother of Jesus Christ and brother of James, author of the Book of James. ((Lk. 8:19) :wave:

fromdownunder · 04-22-2006, 08:34 PM

Carin Nel, you wrote on the Evolution forum:

The book of Mathew was written in 37 AD by.......MATHEW, a publican, one of the twelve apostles, and brother of James.(Luk. 6:16)

Please provide evidence of this statement. Or retract it.

Norm

(edited 'cause I can't spell my own name)

Chris Weimer · 04-22-2006, 09:02 PM

I didn't even know that we had a book of Mathew? All I can find is a book of Matthew, Μαθθαιος in Greek. Who was this Mathew and how come no other Biblical scholar has heard of him?

Dean Anderson · 04-23-2006, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carin Nel

The book of Mathew was written in 37 AD by.......MATHEW, a publican, one of the twelve apostles, and brother of James.(Luk. 6:16)
The book of Mark was written by....John MARK, disciple of Jesus, and nephew of Barnabas (Acts 12:12) appr. 57 - 63 AD.
The book of Luke was written by .....LUKE, the beloved physician ( Col. 4:14) in 68 - 63 AD, and disciple of Jesus, and perhaps he was the Lucius in Rom. 16:21 and if so, he was related to Paul.
The book of John was written by......JOHN, the beloved disciple of Jesus ( John 13:23; 19:26; 20:2) Present with James and and brother of James Peter on several occasions. Present at the trial, at the tomb and on other occasions. Wrote the gospel, 1, 2, 3 John, and Revelation.
Written 90 AD.
The Book of Acts were written by LUKE about 63 AD.(Lk. 1:1-3)
The Books of Romans, 1 + 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 + 2 Thessalonians 1 + 2 Timithy, Titus and Hebrew (?) were all written by PAUL
The book of James were written by....JAMES, the half-brother of Jesus Christ (Mat. 18:55;Mk. 6:3; Gal. 1:19) Mary had other children after Jesus was born. (Lk. 8 :19) This one was not the one called Zebedee (Mt. 4:21) or Alphaeus (Lk. 24:10) Jesu's brothers did not believe on Him until after the resurrection (Jn. 7:5) but the other 2 James' did. This James expereanced a special appearance of Christ, but is not classed as an apostle. The other 2 were apostles.
The book of 1 + 2 Peter were written by.......PETER, also called Simon and Cephas (Mt. 2:2; 1 Peter 1:1), one of the apostles. It was written from Babylon in about 60 AD.
The book of Jude was written by ...JUDE, half-brother of Jesus Christ and brother of James, author of the Book of James. ((Lk. 8:19) :wave:

Pretty much every one of these claims is just plain wrong.

But a discussion of why you are wrong is way off topic for E/C.

Shall we take this to BC&H?

dongiovanni1976x · 04-23-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carin Nel

The book of Mathew was written in 37 AD by.......MATHEW, a publican, one of the twelve apostles, and brother of James.(Luk. 6:16)
The book of Mark was written by....John MARK, disciple of Jesus, and nephew of Barnabas (Acts 12:12) appr. 57 - 63 AD.
The book of Luke was written by .....LUKE, the beloved physician ( Col. 4:14) in 68 - 63 AD, and disciple of Jesus, and perhaps he was the Lucius in Rom. 16:21 and if so, he was related to Paul.
The book of John was written by......JOHN, the beloved disciple of Jesus ( John 13:23; 19:26; 20:2) Present with James and and brother of James Peter on several occasions. Present at the trial, at the tomb and on other occasions. Wrote the gospel, 1, 2, 3 John, and Revelation.
Written 90 AD.
The Book of Acts were written by LUKE about 63 AD.(Lk. 1:1-3)
The Books of Romans, 1 + 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 + 2 Thessalonians 1 + 2 Timithy, Titus and Hebrew (?) were all written by PAUL
The book of James were written by....JAMES, the half-brother of Jesus Christ (Mat. 18:55;Mk. 6:3; Gal. 1:19) Mary had other children after Jesus was born. (Lk. 8 :19) This one was not the one called Zebedee (Mt. 4:21) or Alphaeus (Lk. 24:10) Jesu's brothers did not believe on Him until after the resurrection (Jn. 7:5) but the other 2 James' did. This James expereanced a special appearance of Christ, but is not classed as an apostle. The other 2 were apostles.
The book of 1 + 2 Peter were written by.......PETER, also called Simon and Cephas (Mt. 2:2; 1 Peter 1:1), one of the apostles. It was written from Babylon in about 60 AD.
The book of Jude was written by ...JUDE, half-brother of Jesus Christ and brother of James, author of the Book of James. ((Lk. 8:19) :wave:

Says Who?
Luke 6:16 Says, "and Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor." No mention of 37 AD.
Acts 12:12 says, "As soon as he realized this, he went to the house of Mary, the mother of John whose other name was Mark, where many had gathered and were praying." And from this you conclude that the Gospel of Mark was not only written by this fellow but you can zero in on the date of its compisition within 6 years...this is simply unfounded...I think I will stop here. I am wholly unimpressed.

Roland · 04-23-2006, 12:52 PM

It's funny that the first evidence we have that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote these books comes from Irenaeus in around 180 AD! What took so long?

punk77 · 04-23-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carin Nel

The book of Mathew was written in 37 AD by.......MATHEW, a publican, one of the twelve apostles, and brother of James.(Luk. 6:16)
The book of Mark was written by....John MARK, disciple of Jesus, and nephew of Barnabas (Acts 12:12) appr. 57 - 63 AD.
The book of Luke was written by .....LUKE, the beloved physician ( Col. 4:14) in 68 - 63 AD, and disciple of Jesus, and perhaps he was the Lucius in Rom. 16:21 and if so, he was related to Paul.
The book of John was written by......JOHN, the beloved disciple of Jesus ( John 13:23; 19:26; 20:2) Present with James and and brother of James Peter on several occasions. Present at the trial, at the tomb and on other occasions. Wrote the gospel, 1, 2, 3 John, and Revelation.
Written 90 AD.
The Book of Acts were written by LUKE about 63 AD.(Lk. 1:1-3)
The Books of Romans, 1 + 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 + 2 Thessalonians 1 + 2 Timithy, Titus and Hebrew (?) were all written by PAUL
The book of James were written by....JAMES, the half-brother of Jesus Christ (Mat. 18:55;Mk. 6:3; Gal. 1:19) Mary had other children after Jesus was born. (Lk. 8 :19) This one was not the one called Zebedee (Mt. 4:21) or Alphaeus (Lk. 24:10) Jesu's brothers did not believe on Him until after the resurrection (Jn. 7:5) but the other 2 James' did. This James expereanced a special appearance of Christ, but is not classed as an apostle. The other 2 were apostles.
The book of 1 + 2 Peter were written by.......PETER, also called Simon and Cephas (Mt. 2:2; 1 Peter 1:1), one of the apostles. It was written from Babylon in about 60 AD.
The book of Jude was written by ...JUDE, half-brother of Jesus Christ and brother of James, author of the Book of James. ((Lk. 8:19) :wave:

This link will give a better overview of the writting of the various Biblical books:

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...r/NTcanon.html

fromdownunder · 04-23-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carin Nel
The book of Mathew was written in 37 AD by.......MATHEW, a publican, one of the twelve apostles, and brother of James.(Luk. 6:16)

From the Catholic Encyclopedia rgarding the dating of Matthew:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10057a.htm

Quote:

In our day opinion is rather divided. Catholic critics, in general, favour the years 40-45, although some (e.g. Patrizi) go back to 36-39 or (e.g. Aberle) to 37. Belser assigns 41-42; Conély, 40-50; Schafer, 50-51; Hug, Reuschl, Schanz, and Rose, 60-67.

Protestant and Liberalistic critics also are greatly at variance as regards the time of the composition of the First Gospel. Zahn sets the date about 61-66, and Godet about 60-66; Keim, Meyer, Holtzmann (in his earlier writings), Beyschlag, and Maclean, before 70, Bartiet about 68-69; W. Allen and Plummer, about 65-75; Hilgenfeld and Holtzmann (in his later writings), soon after 70; B. Weiss and Harnack, about 70-75; Renan, later than 85, Réville, between 69 and 96, Jülicher, in 81-96, Montefiore, about 90-100, Volkmar, in 110; Baur, about 130-34

But along comes Carin Nel, who knows more about Biblical scholarship than all the Biblical scholars, and picks a single date out with utter certainty.

Please provide evidence that your date is correct and that all the Biblical scholars cited above are not.

Norm

tezz · 04-23-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervy

Pretty much every one of these claims is just plain wrong. SNIP

This is hysterical, it always amazes me how little Christians actually know abut the origins of their texts (and myths) that they propagate so avidly. I'd love to see this one moved and dissected!

TeZZa

Luci · 04-23-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carin Nel

Noggin, one of my passtimes are studying false religions, because I teach on them at a Bible school in Stellenbosch, South Africa.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...25#post3320725

:banghead:

04-22-2006, 08:34 PM	#2
fromdownunder Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Lara, Victoria, Australia Posts: 2,780	For Carin Nel - When was Matthew Written? Carin Nel, you wrote on the Evolution forum: The book of Mathew was written in 37 AD by.......MATHEW, a publican, one of the twelve apostles, and brother of James.(Luk. 6:16) Please provide evidence of this statement. Or retract it. Norm (edited 'cause I can't spell my own name)

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04-22-2006, 09:02 PM	#3
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	I didn't even know that we had a book of Mathew? All I can find is a book of Matthew, Μαθθαιος in Greek. Who was this Mathew and how come no other Biblical scholar has heard of him?

04-23-2006, 12:52 PM	#6
Roland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 748	It's funny that the first evidence we have that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote these books comes from Irenaeus in around 180 AD! What took so long?

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