Mordy

This argument works only against christians that don't believe demons existed and that 'demons' are basically another word for 'disease' / mental illness / non-entity.

Mathew 8:30-34

"Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs." He said to them, "Go!" So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.


Now points of my argument go:

1) Jesus had to be sinless to fulfill prophecy and be the son of god
2) If jesus was bearing false witness, that is a sin according to the bible
3) So if Jesus is caught bearing false witness he has sinned
4) Jesus can't be god nor the son of god because he didn't fulfill prophetic requirements.
5) Jesus can't be god because he sinned and lied, and god cannot lie.
6) So jesus could not have been resurrected by the old testament god because he lied.

First we have Jesus excorcising the "demon posessed" men, and the demons (spirit entities) went into the pigs and they caused the pigs to die. But some modern christian groups dont believe they exist. So their faith is invalidated by the argument because unless they believe in demons, Jesus is lying by bearing false witness to the people by pretending to cast out demons that don't exist.

If you think this argument is flawed, go ahead and criticize, let me know where the weaknesses are. Thanks.

Toto

The cafeteria Christians who don't believe in demons probably don't believe that the miracle stories in the NT are to be taken literally either.

Mordy

Yeah but doesn't that mean their god and the ressurection of christ invalidates their thinking in that they think they are going to be alive again after death? Paul says if christ isn't raised then their faith is vain... I could pull up a quote but just google for "paul faith vain" or something similar, or search it at www.biblegateway.com .

Clivedurdle

Are there any christians who are not "cafeteria christians"?

There isn't agreement about which books belong in the 'word of God" so everyone has made a selection somehere!

As sin does not exist, it is difficult to sin!

Mordy

Yeah but it would make a great argument against "serious" christians, i.e. more strict in their theology.

It's a no brainer to point out that most christians are selective hypocrites, what's new?? Why should atheists even attempt rational argument with such sloppy, selective and pseudo-intellects to begin with?

Vorkosigan

Because we're the same way.

[

Mordy

I hope you were kidding?? I don't think I've ever seen an atheist question the value of c, or believe that the earth is young???

Toto

Hi Mordy, we all have our selective hypocrisies. It's part of life.

But this forum is for discussion of Biblical textual and historical issues that are of interest to Christians and atheists. We try to maintain a relatively civil level of discussion by avoid insulting generalizations like "sloppy, selective and pseudo-intellects" even if we believe that in our hearts.

Since I don't see any hope for this thread, I'm giving it a free ticket to ~Elsewhere~.

So long.