Ubercat

If he needs to use the wager, then why wouldn't he become a muslim, so as to avoid muslim hell?

If he dies and finds out that he was mistaken, why should he blame himself? It was your god who made him sin (calvinistic predestination remember?) and it was your god who hid his own existence and blinded him, so that he wouldn't be saved.

-Ubercat

rhutchin

Or, it's God's house and He can invite anyone to come in that He wants and He can expect them to come properly dressed for the occasion. You may not like it, but God has every right to do it.

Ubercat

Again, what about those of us who DID read the bible, DID ask god for help, became christians, and now we no longer are? Why did god abandon us to reason and common sense? Why are the bibles promises empty rubbish?

-Ubercat

JamesBannon

rhutchin,
According to your profile you're a Calvinist and according to Calvinist doctrine this simply cannot happen. Once your saved, by God as humans are quite incapable of saving themselves, then you're saved and nothing anyone can say or do will cause this to be otherwise. Similarly, once you damned, by God as humans are quite incapable of damning themselves, then you're damned and nothing anyone can say or do will cause this to be otherwise. From a Calvinistic point-of-view therefore, Pascal's Wager is totally useless. I still wonder why you support a wager that according to your own doctrine is fatally flawed.

Mageth

So then, send me $10,000 dollars today. In doing so, you will escape eternal torment and gain infinite reward. Don't send the money, and you'll suffer eternally.

Unless you can "prove with certainty" that the "threat of Mageth's eternal torment" is not true, it's in your self-interest to send me the money. It's the rational thing to do. And, according to you, that $10,000 is trivial anyway.

rhutchin

The Wager leads the person to the rational conclusion that he should believe in God; it does not tell him which god to believe.

God did not make the person sin; people do that all on their own without coercion. However, the Bible does tell us that those who are headed for destruction have been blinded by the god of this world. I guess that God could save all people if He wanted. The Bible suggests that God won't, so you are correct in your final conclusion. Of course, in your case, you know exactly what is going on (at least as described in the Bible).

Mageth

If I don't receive $10,000 dollars from you forthwith, rhutchin, I will know that you don't put any more stock in the "logic" of Pascal's Wager and its ability to lead one to a "rational conclusion" than I do.

rhutchin

You know, I would do that if I believed you, but I don't. Comparing what I know about you and the likelihood of you being able to do what you claim with the Bible, I have chosen to believe the Bible. It was a tough choice (only kidding), but you have to draw the line somewhere.

rhutchin

What that tells us is that people do not make rational decisions when it comes to God. Rejection of God is basically an emotional decision where the person insists on his way even when he stands to lose everything by doing so. It makes no sense.

Ubercat

Once again you're making up silly guesses. You've been told umpteen times not to tell other people their own life stories. You wear your pride and arrogance like a suit of armor however, and ignore this. If anyone screwed me, it was your god.

-Ubercat

p.s. Actually it was my own gullibility that screwed me. I wont fall in that quagmire again. You have my sympathy since you're forcibly holding your own head under.