Johnny Skeptic

Consider the following Scriptures

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Obviously, the Bible puts great emphasis on the God of the Bible being the creator of the universe, and with good reason, for if the God of the Bible did not create the universe, then his enforcement of rules of his own choosing is no more legitimate than the enforcement of rules that are mandated by any other self-proclaimed dictator of the universe. It is interesting to note that even if God is able to enforce his rules on earth, there is not any evidence at all that he can successfully enforce his rules throughout the universe.

Why do Christians limit creative ability to the God of the Bible? Who knows how many advanced aliens there might be who have similar abilities? How does one tell the difference between a God and an advanced alien? If a jet plane had flown over Jerusalem in 75 A.D., surely the majority of Christians would have believed that the jet plane had supernatural origins, and they would have been wrong.

I request that Christians answer the following question:

Why do you believe that the God of the Bible created the universe?

It is my position that the authority of the Bible depends completely upon the claim that God created the universe, and since the claim is completely non-verifiable by any tangible means, the Bible does not have any legitimate authority whatsoever.

Chili

They don't! You do, and you are standing on the very stone you are trying to lift when you think that the Universe exists. The Universe is not created to exist and the earth *was* when God created the heavens and the earth, but was a formless wasteland and therefore needed structure to become the heavens and the earth. The heavens are created in the plural and the earth remains singular to indicate that the heavens are formed out of the structure that is given to the earth as an objective point of view from where only structure can be seen.

Chaupoline

I began my belief in the God of the Bible primarily because my mother was a Christian and passed it down to my brothers and me. I haven't lost faith, because I associate the God of the Bible as being the creator God. I see many of the passages in the Bible as allegory and it is a base that I have used to evolve my own philosophical views.

Johnny Skeptic

You must be kidding. They most certainly do, and I quoted a number of Scriptures as evidence that they do, starting with the very first verse in the Bible.

I most certainly do not. The fact that I started this thread is proof enough of that. Get this, I AM AN AGNOSTIC. KAPICHE? What are you?

The point is, who SPECIFICALLY accomplished what you just said was accomplished? I should have stated that my arguments are directed against fundamentalist Christians. They most certainly do believe that the universe, and the earth, were SPECIFICALLY created by the God of the Bible, and that that is the primary basis for his authority to enforce rules of his choosing.

Do you mind telling us by what means you come up with your fanciful and nonsensical arguments? In other words, upon what sources do you base your arguments?

So if your mother was an atheist, you would be an atheist, right? I do not have any problems with your beliefs as long as you do not try to legislate them. My main interests are the topics of physician assisted suicide, homosexuality, and same sex marriage, all of which I support. Among Christians, it is mainly fundamentalist Christians who oppose those practices, and the only reason that I make post in these forums is because fundamentalist Christians base their opposition to those practices upon the Bible.

Chili

Get over it Johnny. You are agnostic with a thorn in your side.

Johnny Skeptic

Please stay on topic. Christianity depends completely upon the claim that the God of the Bible created the universe and no one else. Otherwise his enforcement of rules of his own choosing would have no more legitimacy than any other being enforcing rules of his own choosing.

Chili

Universe doesn't exist. Do you want to tell me that God created time too?

How stupid is an argument that claims things are wrong with me because God created time and that is why I am getting older.

Johnny Skeptic

Rather, how stupid is an argument that the universe does not exist. Any physicist will tell you that the universe exists. A web definition for the word "universe" is "everything that exists anywhere; 'they study the evolution of the universe; 'the biggest tree in existence.'" Does the earth exist? If so, how did it get here?

I started this thread primarily to address what fundamentalist Christians believe, not your preposterous and outlandish arguments that almost no one endorses.

I have asked you on a number of occasions what sources you use to make your assertions, but you always refuse to answer my question. Is it because you don't want to embarrass yourself? Do you get your absurd arguments out of books, or do you rely solely upon your own spiritual/emotional experiences?

Chili

Yes and the planet earth exists in the universe and already existed for eons when a sober mythmaker some 6000 years ago created the idea that the world was flat and heaven round because that is where knowledge accumilates for us to discover. His point was that until we do it will remain a formless flat wasteland where things evolve, trees grow big and we just die in a life that is not worth living.

rhutchin

I believe that the God of the Bible created the universe because the Bible provides an historical account that makes this claim and I think the historical account is valid. This topic has been hashed over in other threads and it basically depends on whether the Bible is telling us the truth. There is no way to verify that God created the universe (we cannot conduct an experiment where we also create a universe), but lack of verification does not negate truth. My guess is that you probably accept many things that people tell you without first verifying that they are true. You may do this for many reasons. In this case, you can reject the Bible because it cannot be verified and you assume the risk that you are wrong.