Stumpjumper

Why would God not forgive them as well?

Anyway, there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation... The Bible is very clear that the sins of all have been and, in my opinion, always were forgiven.

It is also pretty clear that man has the ability to reject God's grace and forgiveness... Perhaps finally and definitively...perhaps not...

snapchamp

if god forgives all sins anyway, what is the point of confession or accepting jesus as your saviour, or being a christian for that matter. if he always forgives throughout time, then everyone is A-OK.

Stumpjumper

Well forgiveness is available to all but we do have the ability to reject that forgiveness...

I tend to view Jesus as showing us the way things already were rather than ushering in a new era of God's grace... In that sense, then, Christians have simply accepted as true that which is true for everyone

WishboneDawn

He forgives us as we forgive those who trespass against us. We have to agree as christians, to forgive others or He's under no obligation to forgive us.

achristianbeliever

So God said, "If you eat this apple you will die". (And yes I believe this is what happened as a result of him eating the apple.) So Adam eats the apple and God should say, "Oh darn it all you ate it. Well even though you did exactly what I told you not to I'm gonna let you off the hook". To me that sucks. It would mean that there is no consequences for going against God. We can go against God all we want and God shouldn't do anything about it. That's like saying if someone raped a member of your family there should be no consequences because we should all forgive.

No. I would despise a God like that. A God who lets everyone into Heaven no matter what is not a God I would respect. Assuming the advantages outweigh the disadvantages (ex. jail, retribution) why shouldn't I kill, rape, steal if it advances my position? If someone is preventing me from gaining something in life and killing them will advance my position and no one will ever find out and I'll feel no guilt as a result, why shouldn't I kill him. There will be no consequences when I die God will just forgive me so I might as well kill him. Now of course I'm not saying atheists will always do evil I'm just asking about motivation. Without consequences I don't see a reason why we shouldn't do whatever turns us on whether the actions are pleasing or displeasing to God.

A more loving God will send anyone to Heaven no matter what? That is absolutely disgusting to me.

Don Joe

WishboneDawn: "He forgives us as we forgive those who trespass against us. We have to agree as christians, to forgive others or He's under no obligation to forgive us."

Interesting... but in the case of "God" forgiving a human there's a 1:1 relationship, whereas in the case of the human and others who have trespassed against him/her it's 1:many. So how does it work? Do I get divine forgiveness if I forgive 51% of those who have wronged me?

Pyrrho

It is fiction, and it has to go that way to fulfill its purpose. If all is forgiven, then we have no "explanation" for why the world is as it is. The problem is, of course, that it is not really a good explanation for anything at all.

Pyrrho

Oh yeah, eating an apple is equivalent to raping a member of your family. Ever hear of something called a sense of proportion? Or the punishment fitting the crime? Or punishing only those who are guilty of crime instead of punishing their children too? Do you believe that if your father stole something, we should put you in jail because of it?



And would you feel no guilt? If you would feel guilt, then your supposition of how it would be for you otherwise is irrelevant.



Aside from the fact that Christians who believe in such nonsense appear to be as likely as anyone else to murder, etc., there are consequences in this life to living as you are suggesting. Some of the consequences are internal, as some of us have a conscience, and some of the consequences are external, as in jail.



Perhaps a more loving god would not bother creating anyone who did not deserve to go to heaven. A god who creates evil people is absolutely disgusting to me. It is, in fact, an evil being. That is, if there really were a god that created everything.

purple_kathryn

You're trying to compare eating an apple to rape?

I thought the devil came up in the form in snake and told Eve that god said it was okay to eat the apple, and she convinced Adam. Eve would have had no reason or experience to know that the snake was lying - I fail to see how punishing the whole of mankind for eternity because some niave girl got conned by a higher being is fair.

Hooboy !!

Because Adam was created perfect and therefore 100% responsible for his actions. Sinners are able to be forgiven because they are imperfect and therefore not necessarily accountable for their actions. Christian dogma varies from sect to to sect, but roughly... imperfect souls are given an opportunity to repent their sins and receive God's blessing at a time of judgement.

Receiving God's blessing is not permanent mind you. Satan was at one time an angel and he "sinned" against God and will be destroyed. So, repenting your sins and receiving God's blessing is no license to do whatever you please afterwards.