biblethumping

I totaly agree christains dismiss the OT when they really should be following the laws.

Riley Stone

I have noticed that most Christians are quick to dismiss the violence and cruelty of God given OT laws, saying that these laws are not in any way a reflection of God's character or of his moral values. At other times, however, these same Christians will actually refer to such laws as evidence of God's disapproval of certain actions. An excellent example of this is well-known evangelical Christian psychologist Dr. James Dobson, who recently criticized Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama for referring to Leviticus during a 2006 speech in which Obama was reflecting on the evils of a theodicy. Yet, in an interview with Larry King, Dr. Dobson actually referred to Leviticus himself in an attempt to support his view that according to the Bible, God condemns homosexuality as a sin.

I have also heard Christians, for example, refer to Deuteronomy to prove that God condemns rape. However, ask the same Christians if the Old Testament laws that provide rules for beating slaves are evidence that God approved of slavery, and they'll tell you that you're being unfair.

For many Christians, whether or not Old Testament law is a meaningful reflection of God's character or moral standards depends on what it is these Christians are trying to prove at the moment. When it comes to one's religious beliefs, I have learned not to expect consistency. Anyone who believes that "perfect goodness" includes a God who hates people, and/or a "loving" God who imposes eternal torment on people is not capable, in my opinion, of being consistent, at least not when it comes to his or her religious beliefs.

bopot

Indeed so.

LOL, wouldn't that make God an incubus?

But logic isn't subjective. If they're engaging in selective reading and twisted interpretation, it's not twisted and selective just because I say so. It either is or it isn't.

Your point is taken, but, quite frankly, I would prefer that they were at least honest about their religion. When they petition government to accept the soft and fuzzy reading as a basis for laws/education/etc., the danger is not that schools might teach peace and love according to Jesus. As you said, that's not particularly bothersome. The danger is that lurking just beneath the surface is all the extremist trash that they've conveniently disavowed when it was presented a problem for them.

Yes, I think of Christians as slithering in the shadows, biding their time, salivating at the chance for another Inquisition.

I can at least respect the tenacity of nutcases like the Taliban, who don't bullshit about their crazy book. If Christians would be as honest, then maybe the common person would see how truly batshit crazy that religion is, and finally reject it.

But that's just goofy horror movie stuff. I prefer holding up direct commands from God that are simply indefensible. :devil1:

Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Amen, brotha! Now please call your Congressman and ask them introduce a bill to allow stoning of homosexuals. I want you people to expose your true colors. Stop hiding who you are, speak out for God and Christ!

Exactly. They want it both ways, and the public lets them have it both ways. Or maybe the public simply doesn't remember how truly gruesome Biblical law is. I am deeply suspicious of the polls that suggest the U.S. is overwhelmingly Christian, like 80% or whatever. That is pure horseshit. There's simply aren't enough pews to hold them all, and the streets are teeming every Sunday. I think the majority of that majority are simply checking the box that pertains to whichever holy book was on the shelf during their childhood, covered in dust, unread except during funerals. And for most people in the U.S., that book was the Bible. But those people are no more Christian than I am. We need to convince them to tell the truth in surveys.

Sheshbazzar

Yeah but don't ya know, 'ol Constantine was like just -totally- caught up in the dispensing of his newly found "Christian peace and love" dude.

Actually I get nauseated even thinking about those generations of sanctimonious sick "Christian" bastards who got their jollies by standing around clutching their crosses and chanting hymns to cover the screams of those whom they were burning at the stake, and tearing in half upon the torture racks.
In my view, knowing that such things did actually take place (as is well documented by the Christian churches own records and admissions)
Anyone who is knowledgeable of it, yet still desiring to be associated with that kind of history, is just as sick of a fuck as those sick bastards who did those things.

elevator

Ingersoll, for example, made the observation that the New Testament is infinitely worse than the Old Testament because the Christian doctrine of hell (the possibility of eternal punishment) is derived from the teachings of the New Testament.

Roland

Also, the NT is based on that most primitive and barbaric of religious notions, that of a god who can only be appeased through human sacrifice. I'm amazed at how many otherwise reasonably intelligent, modern people seem to forget (or at least look past) that.

bopot

Great point. I am also amazed at that.

Roger Pearse

What do the Jews say when you bring up the same to them?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Selsaral

Even more is the idea that the worth of our cosmic souls should be judged even in part by whether or not we believe a silly fable about a magic jew.

The old testament has absolute obedience as a primary theme. The new testament does too, it just wraps it up better.

elevator

The punishment for disobedience though seems to have been taken to the next level in the New Testament (with the introduction of hell).