Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Soul Invictus · 11-06-2006, 10:03 PM

I came across a site a while back called The Internet Sacred Text Archive and I was curious if anyone is familiar with their information.

I'd like to know about the oldest secular and religious texts. I have no clue what the oldest secular documents are however I'm finding various results stating that the oldest religious documents found are the Pyramid Texts. I saw somewhere that another ancient African document called the Wisdom of Ptah-Hotep is ancient, however I am unable to verify how older/younger it might be to the Pyramid Texts. My inquiry is to include all known records.

Thanks in advance.

Amaleq13 · 11-06-2006, 10:43 PM

It is my understanding that one of, if not the, oldest written records is a Sumerian recipe for beer (c.3200BCE).

seebs · 11-06-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

It is my understanding that one of, if not the, oldest written records is a Sumerian recipe for beer (c.3200BCE).

Yes, but do we categorize this as secular or religious?

yalla · 11-07-2006, 12:46 AM

Once upon a time I came across some writer who speculated that the beginnings of agriculture may have been due to the desire to grow plants for beer making as part of alcoholic assisted religious sacred ceremonies as opposed to just for their food value.
Can't be more specific than that.

Clivedurdle · 11-07-2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

From Kirkus Reviews
The ethnobotanist co-author of Psilocybin: The Magic Mushroom Grower's Guide (not reviewed) puts forth the theory that magic mushrooms are the original ``tree of knowledge'' and that the general lack of psychedelic exploration is leading Western society toward eventual collapse or destruction--controversial statements, to say the least, though the argument's details often prove fascinating. In the beginning, McKenna tells us, there were protohumans with small brains and plenty of genetic competition, and what eventually separated the men from the apes was an enthusiasm for the hallucinogenic mushrooms that grew on the feces of local cattle. Claiming that psilocybin in the hominid diet would have enhanced eyesight, sexual enjoyment, and language ability and would have thereby placed the mushroom-eaters in the front lines of genetic evolution--eventually leading to hallucinogen-ingesting shamanistic societies, the ancient Minoan culture, and some Amazonian tribes today--McKenna also asserts that the same drugs are now outlawed in the US because of their corrosive effect on our male-dominated, antispiritual society. Unconsciously craving the vehicles by which our ancestors expanded their imaginations and found meaning in their lives, he says, we feast on feeble substitutes: coffee, sugar, and chocolate, which reinforce competition and aggressiveness; tobacco, which destroys our bodies; alcohol, whose abuse leads to male violence and female degradation; TV, which deadens our senses; and the synthetics--heroin, cocaine and their variations--which leave us victimized by our own addiction. On the other hand, argues McKenna, magic mushrooms, used in a spiritually enlightened, ritual manner, can open the door to greater consciousness and further the course of human evolution- -legalization of all drugs therefore is, he says, an urgent necessity. Provocative words--often captivating, but not often convincing. -- Copyright ©1991, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

Food of the Gods: The Search for the Original Tree of Knowledge A Radical History of Plants, Drugs, and Human Evolution (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Roger Pearse · 11-07-2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seebs

Yes, but do we categorize this as secular or religious?

The Sumerians would have regarded the distinction as meaningless, I expect.

One point: I think we should take care to distinguish in our minds between documentary and literary texts; and between written material found in archaeological contexts, and text transmitted by copying down the centuries. Mixing these together will cause all sorts of confusions.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

jakejonesiv · 11-07-2006, 08:17 AM

The Pyramid Texts
Translation by Samuel A. B. Mercer
[1952, copyright not renewed]

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts
Translated into English
by Raymond O. Faulkner
Oxford University Press, 2000

A great resource,
Die Altaegyptischen Pyramidentexte Pyramidentexte nach den Papierabdrucken und Photographien des Berliner Museums

These texts are the sources for many mythicist claims to the effect that the gospels reflect earlier Egyptian myths; the alleged parallels between the stories of Jesus and Osiris.

Jake Jones IV

Sarwat Anis Al-Assiouty, Origines égyptiennes du christianisme et de l’Islam, édition : Letouzey & Ané, Paris 1989, ISBN: 2706301759

Amaleq13 · 11-07-2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seebs

Yes, but do we categorize this as secular or religious?

The creation of the nectar of the gods can only be considered religious.

fast · 11-07-2006, 08:35 AM

It's my understanding that the difference between history and prehistoric is marked by the first writing ever. If my memory serves me correctly, it's somewhere near 3500 BC.

Perhaps altering your search for the earliest writings (regardless of religious context) will happenchance yield a result you seek.

Soul Invictus · 11-07-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

The Sumerians would have regarded the distinction as meaningless, I expect.

One point: I think we should take care to distinguish in our minds between documentary and literary texts; and between written material found in archaeological contexts, and text transmitted by copying down the centuries. Mixing these together will cause all sorts of confusions.

Can you explain the difference between documentary and literary texts? I'm less interested in copied texts. Either way, do we know what the oldest finds are in both arenas?

11-06-2006, 10:03 PM	#1
Soul Invictus Contributor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 15,576	Oldest secular and religous manuscripts and texts I came across a site a while back called The Internet Sacred Text Archive and I was curious if anyone is familiar with their information. I'd like to know about the oldest secular and religious texts. I have no clue what the oldest secular documents are however I'm finding various results stating that the oldest religious documents found are the Pyramid Texts. I saw somewhere that another ancient African document called the Wisdom of Ptah-Hotep is ancient, however I am unable to verify how older/younger it might be to the Pyramid Texts. My inquiry is to include all known records. Thanks in advance.

11-07-2006, 08:17 AM	#7
jakejonesiv Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,060	The Pyramid texts: References The Pyramid Texts Translation by Samuel A. B. Mercer [1952, copyright not renewed] The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts Translated into English by Raymond O. Faulkner Oxford University Press, 2000 A great resource, Die Altaegyptischen Pyramidentexte Pyramidentexte nach den Papierabdrucken und Photographien des Berliner Museums These texts are the sources for many mythicist claims to the effect that the gospels reflect earlier Egyptian myths; the alleged parallels between the stories of Jesus and Osiris. Jake Jones IV Sarwat Anis Al-Assiouty, Origines égyptiennes du christianisme et de l’Islam, édition : Letouzey & Ané, Paris 1989, ISBN: 2706301759

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11-06-2006, 10:43 PM	#2
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	It is my understanding that one of, if not the, oldest written records is a Sumerian recipe for beer (c.3200BCE).

11-07-2006, 12:46 AM	#4
yalla Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: oz Posts: 1,848	Once upon a time I came across some writer who speculated that the beginnings of agriculture may have been due to the desire to grow plants for beer making as part of alcoholic assisted religious sacred ceremonies as opposed to just for their food value. Can't be more specific than that.

11-07-2006, 08:35 AM	#9
fast Contributor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Carolina, USA Posts: 14,025	It's my understanding that the difference between history and prehistoric is marked by the first writing ever. If my memory serves me correctly, it's somewhere near 3500 BC. Perhaps altering your search for the earliest writings (regardless of religious context) will happenchance yield a result you seek.

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