Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Starboy · 05-18-2004, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Timothy G. Muse

If God's word is not true, then we need not pay ANY attention to our conscience when it condemns us, for there is NO ultimate rule of law or accountability and a person is free to do whatever his mind conjures up; but since the Word of God is authoritative and true, it's better to "kiss the Son" lest we be found guilty before him.

RTGMuse, consider the possibility that if the bible is malarkey that perhaps there may be other ways to live life well in peace and harmony. When the day comes that Christians figure out that the bible is all BS your world will not implode. In fact you will now be open to consider other ideas that will work a whole lot better in our current circumstances than that Bronze Age crap in the bible.

Starboy

Biff the unclean · 05-18-2004, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyndis

I'm just amused that such a thing happened in a thread about hypocrasy...

It's such a common occurrence that I suggest that it have it's own word. How about hypochristy?

Biff the unclean · 05-18-2004, 11:34 AM

I admit I am TOTALLY depraved), but I proclaim it because I believe it for myself (and I believe it true FOR ALL OF US).
Well Tim you probably believe that is true of all of us only because YOU are totally depraved and filled with Christian anthropomorphism. Because if you weren't you would notice that the Atheists here are decent moral people. If you checked statistics you will find Atheist crime rates lower than those of all Christian sects, except two small ones. You will find that there are no Atheists in the US at this time who have been convicted of a capital offence. Our divorce rates are the same as Catholics.

So we aren't out there raping, robbing and killing people. Our morals are indistinguishable from those of Theists. Which means that your claims of God ordered morality are a bunch of baloney. God is not the source of morality, humanity is.
So who the Hell do you think you are talking to? We aren't your flock of sheep who get their jollies from hearing Atheists insulted. WE ARE THE VERY ATHEISTS YOU ARE INSULTING.
Maybe your flock gets some perverse pleasure from you calling them names but around here it's plain lack of manners.

lisarea · 05-18-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Timothy G. Muse

Note, I do not proclaim this message with a "holier than thou" attitude (for apart from the grace of God, I admit I am TOTALLY depraved), but I proclaim it because I believe it for myself (and I believe it true FOR ALL OF US). Having come to accept it as truth and having experienced the greatest comfort, peace, freedom and joy through it; I proclaim it that others might experience the same. The goal is not worldly guilt and sorrow, but godly repentance that leads to salvation. Note - the SAME rule applies to the Christian that applies to others... that is, we all have broken the law, possess a guilty record, and a broken life, but the solution is found in the gospel. The purpose of the law is not to simply make a person feel bad, but to lead us to Christ!

If God's word is not true, then we need not pay ANY attention to our conscience when it condemns us, for there is NO ultimate rule of law or accountability and a person is free to do whatever his mind conjures up; but since the Word of God is authoritative and true, it's better to "kiss the Son" lest we be found guilty before him.

These two ideas raise a few questions.

I understand that the idea of forgiveness is central to Christianity, in the 'nobody is too far gone' sense, but what is the value in even having these tenets if existing Christians can violate them time and time again, then apologize and be forgiven? Is there a very strong distinction between sincere and insincere repentance? Do most churches emphasize this, or do they just continue to forgive the repentant time and time again for the same infractions?

If the 'word of God' is the sole basis for Christians' morality, but Christians live by this 'not perfect, but forgiven' mantra, then why should anyone ever trust these people?

The idea that the whole of morality is issued by a God who also grants absolution for the asking makes me very uncomfortable.

(BTW, I do know that there are many sincere and decent Christians out there who really do try. I also know that there are many out there who think of repentance as some kind of E ticket, and I am very curious as to how this sort of thing is addressed.)

Starboy · 05-18-2004, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

So who the Hell do you think you are talking to? We aren't your flock of sheep who get their jollies from hearing Atheists insulted. WE ARE THE VERY ATHEISTS YOU ARE INSULTING.

The muse is very intimidated by atheists and resorts to such tactics out of fear that he is completely wrong about his beliefs. Expect more of the same. It is the equivalent of circle the holy wagons.

Starboy

Yahzi · 05-18-2004, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

I'm told that when a Gay makes a slip like that it's called "outing yourself." And it's polite to pretend that you didn't know all along.

Dammit, I outed him when he first got here, but nobody believed me, just because I didn't have any proof. I'm so pissed about that.

Hypocrisy is fun!

Biff the unclean · 05-18-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhaedas

A bit off topic, or maybe not...
It's statements like this that make me glad that those who cling to morality based solely on their bible do believe in a god.

The way I understand it is that if you really hate people and think everyone is totally depraved then you need a superhuman god the threaten you so that you won't attack these depraved bastards.

However if you don't have the god then you don't hate people. You actually feel empathy for them, since you are a person yourself. So there is no need of a threat because you actually want to behave yourself around them.

maddog · 05-18-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyndis

Quote:

Originally Posted by usartist

Is not hypocrisy the major complaint that we atheists have with theists?

...............

...............If god is not a community god, that is if a theist understands god as a personal god then the organized religion breaks down:

[my editorial addition= "I.e."] I have a personal relationship with God. He understands that I need a little more than others. So he grants me forgiveness for violating a couple of his rules. He understands me, I have a personal relationship with him.

Folks, to be fair to usartist this is not an inconsistency or an unintentional "outing," or a Freudian slip. It's a hypothetical -- i.e., what a theist with a "personal God" rather than a community God would say.

King Rat · 05-18-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Folks, to be fair to usartist this is not an inconsistency or an unintentional "outing," or a Freudian slip. It's a hypothetical -- i.e., what a theist with a "personal God" rather than a community God would say.

Damn, that is what I get for skimming. I'm still betting that he will out himself eventually, or go through some miraculous "re-conversion." Maybe we should start a pool.

usartist · 05-18-2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddog

Folks, to be fair to usartist this is not an inconsistency or an unintentional "outing," or a Freudian slip. It's a hypothetical -- i.e., what a theist with a "personal God" rather than a community God would say.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I missed what happened here.

:notworthy Maddog has it correct :notworthy

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05-18-2004, 11:34 AM	#23
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	I admit I am TOTALLY depraved), but I proclaim it because I believe it for myself (and I believe it true FOR ALL OF US). Well Tim you probably believe that is true of all of us only because YOU are totally depraved and filled with Christian anthropomorphism. Because if you weren't you would notice that the Atheists here are decent moral people. If you checked statistics you will find Atheist crime rates lower than those of all Christian sects, except two small ones. You will find that there are no Atheists in the US at this time who have been convicted of a capital offence. Our divorce rates are the same as Catholics. So we aren't out there raping, robbing and killing people. Our morals are indistinguishable from those of Theists. Which means that your claims of God ordered morality are a bunch of baloney. God is not the source of morality, humanity is. So who the Hell do you think you are talking to? We aren't your flock of sheep who get their jollies from hearing Atheists insulted. WE ARE THE VERY ATHEISTS YOU ARE INSULTING. Maybe your flock gets some perverse pleasure from you calling them names but around here it's plain lack of manners.

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