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Old 08-31-2004, 11:55 AM   #1
fta
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Default Mythical Old Testament characters?

Is there any historical evidence that Old Testament characters such as Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Saul, and David actually existed?
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Old 08-31-2004, 12:16 PM   #2
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Abraham and Moses almost certainly didn't exist.

King David might have, even though he might not have done all the things described in the Bible.

I recommend you to read Matthew SturgisĀ“s book "It ain't necessarily so: investigating the truth of the biblical past".

Not a too compelling answer though (sorry, I think writing in English is kind of difficult); I guess others here at II can elaborate further.
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Old 08-31-2004, 12:28 PM   #3
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As far as I know, there is no extra-biblical evidence that Abraham, Moses Joshua or Saul actually existed. An Assyrian stela has a mention of a victory over the House of David, which is the only mention of David outside the bible.

I'm not an expert, but I try to keep up with this kind of thing.
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Old 08-31-2004, 12:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas83
Abraham and Moses almost certainly didn't exist.

King David might have, even though he might not have done all the things described in the Bible.

I recommend you to read Matthew SturgisĀ“s book "It ain't necessarily so: investigating the truth of the biblical past".

Not a too compelling answer though (sorry, I think writing in English is kind of difficult); I guess others here at II can elaborate further.
It Ain't Necessarily So is the book of the month for August at the Infidels bookstore.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:46 PM   #5
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YES! YES! YES! they certainly 100% did exist..............The only trouble is their only claim to existence is in a very boring fairy tale book.
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Old 09-06-2004, 05:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gullwind
An Assyrian stela has a mention of a victory over the House of David, which is the only mention of David outside the bible.
The interpretation of the so-called Tel Dan Inscription isn't exactly uncontested, as all words are separated by dots - but the crucial BYTDWD, possibly interpreted as "house of David", has no dot between T and D. Professor Kamal Salibi, whom I sometimes find more entertaining than convincing, offers another interpretation on http://www.cwo.com/~thowoods/salibitxt.htm.
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by fta
Is there any historical evidence that Old Testament characters such as Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Saul, and David actually existed?

According to history, Israel was one of the earliest and most accurate record keepers on Earth. What we call the Old Testament today were in fact documents of record to the contemporaries who kept these written accounts of the Jewish People and their history.

Why is it nobody questions the validity of China's records from 5000 years ago, or Egypts records for that matter. These Ancient civilazations had a written language as Israel did and nobody questions the accuracy of their scribes who recorded their history.

I realise that it take faith to believe much of what the OT say's but we have overwhelming archeological evidence that it is accurate. What i find most compelling is the fact that not one archeological discovery we have ever made in Israel has ever conflicted with the written record. Jericho has been found and the evidence supports the OT. Soddom has been identified and it corroberates the historical accounts in the OT.

As Human Beings we have been given the same attributes as the God who made us in His image, Free Will being the attribute that, beside us, only our maker possesses. This is what seperates us from all other creatures in this amazing Creation. Some might think by my handle and my words that i am a Jew defending the Old Testament, you would be mistaken. I am an Arab defending the OT because it is by way of the Jew that Salvation came into the World.
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Old 09-08-2004, 02:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham
According to history, Israel was one of the earliest and most accurate record keepers on Earth. What we call the Old Testament today were in fact documents of record to the contemporaries who kept these written accounts of the Jewish People and their history.
The problem is, there's a lot of evidence suggested that many of the early books were not written by contemporaries, but significantly later.

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Why is it nobody questions the validity of China's records from 5000 years ago, or Egypts records for that matter. These Ancient civilazations had a written language as Israel did and nobody questions the accuracy of their scribes who recorded their history.
As a student of Chinese history, I can tell you that much of the "recorded" early history of China is generally considered to be mythical. Or do you believe everything you read in the San wei shu wu?

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I realise that it take faith to believe much of what the OT say's but we have overwhelming archeological evidence that it is accurate.
Would you care to produce this evidence?

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What i find most compelling is the fact that not one archeological discovery we have ever made in Israel has ever conflicted with the written record. Jericho has been found and the evidence supports the OT. Soddom has been identified and it corroberates the historical accounts in the OT.
Jericho isn't the evidence you're looking for, since in fact the archaeological evidence from Jericho does directly contradict The Bible. Not only does its archaeology date the settlement of Jericho to more than 10,000 years B.P., when according to the Bible there were two or fewer humans living on the earth, but there is no destruction layer consistent with a sack or the destruction of a city wall. Read the site reports before you claim that they support your argument.
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Old 09-08-2004, 02:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham
According to history, Israel was one of the earliest and most accurate record keepers on Earth. What we call the Old Testament today were in fact documents of record to the contemporaries who kept these written accounts of the Jewish People and their history.
Simply false. The Sumerians and Egyptians (and maybe Chinese) are the oldest record keepers. We have kings lists and trade records going towards the beginning of the 3rd millennium (aka 2600-2900 BC). Even if the Hebrew canon (HC) was literally true, Moses would be the first to write. And that would be 1500-1200 BC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham
Why is it nobody questions the validity of China's records from 5000 years ago, or Egypt's records for that matter. These Ancient civilizations had a written language as Israel did and nobody questions the accuracy of their scribes who recorded their history.
Uh, who around here buys into their gods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham
I realize that it take faith to believe much of what the OT say's but we have overwhelming archeological evidence that it is accurate. What i find most compelling is the fact that not one archeological discovery we have ever made in Israel has ever conflicted with the written record. Jericho has been found and the evidence supports the OT. Soddom has been identified and it corroberates the historical accounts in the OT.
Jericho was just a small village without any real defenses during the time of the mighty Caanon invasion by the Israelites. The only support archeology that supports the HC is that it existed (whoopee). There is nothing to support the notion that the wall fell outward either. There is nothing outside the HC that supports the amazing invasion. No other empire seamed to notice. The Egyptians never seamed to notice the Exodus. Archeology cannot find even a hint of a mass exodus of the whole of Hebrew culture. Yep, it sure takes faith, since you have to pretty much deny reality.
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Old 09-08-2004, 02:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham
According to history, Israel was one of the earliest and most accurate record keepers on Earth. What we call the Old Testament today were in fact documents of record to the contemporaries who kept these written accounts of the Jewish People and their history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham
As Human Beings we have been given the same attributes as the God who made us in His image, Free Will being the attribute that, beside us, only our maker possesses. This is what seperates us from all other creatures in this amazing Creation. Some might think by my handle and my words that i am a Jew defending the Old Testament, you would be mistaken. I am an Arab defending the OT because it is by way of the Jew that Salvation came into the World.
Here's a web site that has much information on the Sumerians. You might want to check out some of knowledge we have of their culture due to the ten's of thousands of clay tablets that still exist from over 4000 years ago. What direct knowledge do we have of the Jew's/Hebrews/Israelites that's over 3000 years old?

http://www.ragz-international.com/sumeria.htm
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