Johnny Skeptic

You have stated on a number of occasions that skeptics and Muslims are missing a golden opportunity to discredit the Bible by rebuilding Babylon. Your first arguments in this thread were in post #10. You said that your challenge to skeptics and Muslims to rebuild Babylon is your primary argument. Here it is:

You issued a challenge to skeptics and Muslims, but whenever I ask you why they should accept your challenge, you always refuse to answer my question by conveniently attempting to divert attention away from the Babylon prophecy. It is simply not done in debates to issue challenges to people without providing evidence that if their attempts are successful they will enjoy substantial benefits. If I challenged you to attempt to do something, would you not ask me to provide you with evidence that if your attempt was successful that you would enjoy substantial benefits? Of course you would. Are you saying that skeptics and Muslims should accept your challenge without any evidence at all that if their attempt is successful they will enjoy substantial benefits.

In your opinion, what would the results be if skeptics and Muslims rebuilt Babylon or had Arabs pitch their tents there? Would the Christian Church become substantially smaller? You know it wouldn’t, and so does everyone else. Would the U.S. adopt a more favorable foreign policy towards Muslims. You know it wouldn’t, and so does everyone else.

Your primary argument is your challenge to skeptics and Muslims. Please be advised that my primary argument will always be to ask you why skeptics and Muslims should accept your challenge. No matter how many times you make a post, I will always refer back to your primary argument and ask you to defend it. If you wish to discuss other prophecies, then please do so in other threads.

I am saving this post in a Microsoft Word file, so it will only take me a few seconds to repost these arguments anytime that you make a post.

Please feel free to make posts in the other threads where you have embarrassed yourself, such as the thread on the dating of the Tyre prophecy, and the thread about the survival of the Jewish people. And, by all means, please feel free to start a new thread and defend the prophet Daniel, or Jeremiah, or any other prophet.

As I have told you on a number of occasions, even if God can foretell the future, I would not worship him because of his questionable nature. You tried to defend the nature of God in the thread on Biblical errors, but you embarrassed yourself and withdrew. Would you care to try again in any other the threads that I mentioned, or to start some new threads? I hope so.

mata leao

skeptic YOU have embarrassed yourself, Lee Merrill is right. Babylon has not been rebuilt. This salient fact has been repeated over an over again. Atheists became apopleptic when we challenged them to get a cheap plane ticket and go see for themselves. The ancient site is not inhabited either. Sadam Hussein, trying to ape Nebbie started to build a tawdry scale model replica of the ancient city, complete with a scale model of the Ishtar Gate, but he didnt get to finish it. Do you people have some fear of flying? Christian soldiers did the dangerous work for ya! go see for yourself.

Jack the Bodiless

mata leao:

I suggest you actually READ this thread before embarrassing yourself like this. Saddam had to evict a thousand INHABITANTS to build his palace there.

And Babylon was not destroyed when it was SUPPOSED to be destroyed, and even total destruction LATER will never change that fact. It survived its prophesied destruction, and was rebuilt when it was prophesied NEVER to be rebuilt.

Even if you nuke modern Babylon to radioactive glass and nobody EVER goes there again: the prophecy has already FAILED.

Johnny Skeptic

Are you not aware that MANY ancient cities have never been rebuilt for various ordinary reasons. Any historian will tell you this. Regardless of what has happened in the past, why should skeptics and Muslims attempt to rebuild Babylon today? Lee Merrill says that if Babylon were to be rebuilt, he would give up Christianity. Does that include you? How about if one Arab were to pitch his tent there? I can promise you that if President Bush said that if one Arab were to pitch his tent in Babylon, and/or if Babylon were to be rebuilt, that he would give up Christianity, and adopt a more favorable foreign policy towards Muslims, that the Iraqis would immediately be able to have an Arab pitch his tent in Babylon, and if necessary Iraq and a consortium of other Muslims nations would immediately begin to rebuild Babylon and successfully complete the rebuilding of Babylon.

It is interesting to note that your and Lee Merrill's views on the Babylon prophecy are not popular even among fundamentalist Christians. I have never found a debate on the Internet between top Christian and skeptic scholars about the Babylon prophecy. I assume that not even one single Christian in the entire world would say that he became a Christian largely or solely because of the Babylon prophecy. I also assume that Billy Graham and most other well-known evangelists never mention the Babylon prophecy. My gracious, it is difficult to find a Christian who knows anything at all about the Babylon prophecy. I have four Bible commentaries, including one whose editor is well-known Christian scholar and author F.F. Bruce. None of the commentaries even come close to mentioning ANY of your and Lee Merrill's arguments.

John A. Broussard

Go to it, U.S. Champion Debater. This crushing rejoinder should silence the opposition.

Embarrassment, apoplexy, fear of flying, get a cheap lane ticket. Terrific! A truly substantive dismissal of serious evidence.

I'm learning a lot about rational debate from this U.S. Champion Debater.

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

This prophecy would seem to be saying that nomadic Arabs would not use this site as a waystation, that was how I had understood this. But this could indeed be overturned, if such Arabs could be induced to stay there from time to time, say 3 or 4 times, along their route.

I am answering your response to my challenge! I responded your question with another question:

"So then all your other efforts here and in other forums, all the skeptic's efforts in any way, are futile, too? And you know this?"

"Why, may I ask, do you persist?"

Just because its not the answer you want, doesn't make it not be an answer! So now you need to respond to my response, and not again repeat your question.

But Jack has not addressed my response to this! Your turn to read some of this thread...

But there was no timeframe specified for the destruction, and a longer period makes the fulfillment of this prophecy more unlikely to be a lucky guess, not less likely.

But generals and leaders of countries haven't tried to! If they typically also tried to rebuild these cities, and failed, then you would indeed make your point.

Regards,
Lee

Jack the Bodiless

On the contrary. I've seen your attempts to redefine "inhabitants". As those folks certainly lived there (and in houses, not just tents), they were "inhabitants".
Again, you have it backwards. If you ignore the context and declare the prophecy to be open-ended, you lose it completely. It becomes totally unremarkable, totally certain. If Babylon had NEVER been destroyed: it "hasn't happened yet". If Babylon is destroyed and rebuilt: it "hasn't been destroyed permanently yet, but it will be". If Babylon is destroyed and NOT rebuilt: it "will never be rebuilt". But if it's then rebuilt next year: "I was wrong, the prophecy hasn't started yet, but Babylon WILL be permanently destroyed NEXT time, you mark my words...".

Johnny Skeptic

What about the undecided crowd who are not trying to discredit the Bible? They are wondering why you issued a challenge to Muslims and skeptics and continue to refuse to provide any evidence whatsoever that if Babylon were to be rebuilt, and/or if Arabs were to pitch their tents in Babylon, skeptics and Muslims would enjoy substantial benefits. I have used this argument before, but you have always refused to reply to it, and quite conveniently I might add. What about the good number of Christians who are also questioning your evasiveness?

I should have used these arguments all along, and from now on, I will repost them every time that you make a post because we are both well aware that they are irrefutable. If you wish, I am quite certain that I can find an undecided person who is willing to come to this forum and ask you the same questions that I am asking you. If I do so, will you answer his questions, or will you answer his questions with questions like you often do. As always, thanks very much for the entertainment. I find my debates with you to be quite amusing. I am sure that a number of other skeptics feel the same way, and even some Christians to boot. Except for you, I have never debated a fundamentalist Christian who used arguments that are unpopular even among the vast majority of fundamentalist Christians. Only someone like you would be willing to embarrass himself among his own crowd.

mata leao

Lee Merrill is right, Johnny Skeptic you are wrong, just keep swigging beers with the burn outs who live in Redington and you'll be ok, Babylon has not been rebuilt or reinhabited. It was once a palace and center of an empire, it had a KIng and sent ambassadors and received ambassadors, it had a large army. Today, arcahaeologists dig in its ruins to try to find evidence of its existence. A foreign "infidel" army has dug latrine pits into its grounds!.

Sven

Reading these posts, a certain word which starts with a 't' comes to my mind.
This guy can not possibly be serious, can he?