zaitzeff

--- In blessingyou9 on yahoogroups.com, "Frog" <gobster@h...> wrote:
>
> Those points certainly are interesting. Certainly those who do not
> perform as God commands because they know not the commandments of God
> can reconcile with God at some point. I don't see how that leads you
> to believe that those who knowingly sin or that Satan can reconcile
> later.

some of the questions you must face are as follows:

suppose that a demon or a person in hell prays and asks God for mercy or help. What kind of God do you believe in in terms of how God would respond to such a person's asking for mercy or help? Does God respond with help or does He ignore the prayer? The testimony of NDEs is that people who wish and/or pray can get out of hell. Most Christians I know, even the conservative Christians, say that God's nature is such that he would respond with help and mercy. (Yes, I know that some Christians would say that God would ignore such prayers, but those Christians are ones who also never become my friends or ceased to be my friend in a short time.)

The next question is, do some of the people in hell or some of the demons in hell ever pray for mercy or ask God for help? Again, the testimony of NDEs is that some of them do and that when they do, God shows them the way out or God helps them. (And, here is where my conservative Christian friends part ways. They say, Yes, God would respond with help and mercy, but no one in hell ever asks for help!! They just grin and bear their eternal burnings, day and night, without asking God whom they have now seen for mercy!)

OK, so, the final question is, if some of the people in hell get out and go to be with God in what we or they would call heaven, does this happen for all the people in hell or only some? Once we admit that the problem is not with God's inability or unwillingness to forgive, the question is whether or not some people/demons have an infinite tolerance for unending pain.

Also, consider God. Is God a God of love? Does God hate people? Suppose that God in fact knows the future as is believed by all conservative Christians and by myself the liberal. Suppose that God knows the future of people such as Hitler and Eichmann. Even if you believe in free will--which the Bible does not teach, see Romans 9--we have this question: Was it an act of love on the part of God to create Hitler and his friends in Naziism? Suppose that Hitler is going to hell for eternity. Was it an act of love for God to create Hitler, knowing Hitler's future?

Perhaps you have kids and perhaps one of your kids has a doll. Suppose you could breathe life into one of your kids dolls and that,
if you did so, you also know that breathing life into the doll would certainly result in the doll experiencing eternal, unending, torment as is described by the preachers in some of our local Baptist churches. Only a psychopath would breathe life into the doll under those conditions. Yet, God as He is described to be by conservative Christians does exactly what only a psychopath would do. Why? The "best" answer they can give is that God has to do so in order to create others who will go to heaven for eternity. It is a kind of collateral damage with the results being unending torment in the flames of God for those who were not very lucky. Conservative Christians assent to this arrangement, partly because they think they have no other choice, and partly because, as they read their Bible, they go to heaven and it is the other people go to hell for eternity.

Hosea Ballou was one of the founding fathers of universalism. He was growing up, raised by a Calvinist Baptist preacher dad. The Baptists of his day believed that God would save about 1 in 1000. As he was growing, he asked his dad, Maturin:

"Suppose I had the skill and power out of an inanaimate substance to make an animate, and should make one, at the same time knowing that this creature of mine would suffer everlasting misery,--would my act of creating this creature be an act of goodness?"

Maturin the preacher dad was shaken and had no answer.

Sign Related

Any God is an evil being. First they think to fool you (if you're not one of them) by making you think there is one God after the fact they give it away in Genesis with that "let us make man in our image". But even though there is a man made God, there are Gods. The Gods are just evil, and it's apart of how come there be conflicting things in the very bible. Those who astral project were indeed inspired by their powers to write up the concepts. And if the shoe fits... Then those evil beings are just as well God in general. And understand this, they go unto hell only. And them being evil of course want others to think they can go unto hell, but that's a damn lie went it's just them going unto hell.

You see, there was indeed a trap set before the world that would capture every single evil entity and murder them in hell's torments. The only reason they must remain in hell is because they themselves be evil into life eternal. They themselves are responsible for being who they be. So they will bare their cross. Before they cross us it was set that their cross would cross themselves. If it were up to them we who are not Gods would be put in hell forever. And get how sick they are--they'd just watch us in hell as if from on the other side of hell in some safe house. If you could actually bring yourself to want to watch someone innocent be inflicted with your torments for ever, then you'd be one sick motha.

Anyway, the abomination of desolation is soul related but the devils will bare there sick cross as there own soul turns on them.

They (the Gods/devils) are as human beings and ghosts at the same time until they are just ghosts.