GakuseiDon

On another thread, I was surprised to read the following:
I was surprised because I thought that there was a general consensus on this board that most of the purported parallels between Horus and Jesus had no basis in evidence. AFAIK most of these claims came out of 19th C writings when there was a cottage industry in producing fantastic theories centred around Egyptology and comparative religion.

So that started me wondering: what ARE the parallels, superficial or otherwise? I think it might be useful to have a sticky thread (is that possible, mods?) where we can see all the parallels listed. The rules would be:
1. The information would need to be backed up from primary sources or reliable secondary sources (yes, I know "reliable secondary sources" opens up a can of worms, but I'd define it as "sources that can be relied on to have worked from primary sources". If the source just relies on 19th C writers, this should be noted)
2. The parallels are listed without further analysis. It doesn't matter how broad or specific they are, or whether they provide evidence of copycatting or not. We just want the parallels.

I'll start: There is a statue at the Egyptian Museum showing Isis nursing the newborn Horus, which parallels images of Mary with a newborn Jesus. The image is here:
http://www.globalegyptianmuseum.org/detail.aspx?id=9566

Just to emphasize: Let's get the parallels first, and make sure that there is evidence to support that they existed in the first place, before we start to analyze what the parallels mean with regards to the Christ Myth.

Note that there appears to have been several versions of Horus.

Roger Pearse

This can only be a useful exercise.

spamandham

It's hard to imagine a concensus of any kind on this board, but...

I'd say it's hard to deny that Judaism and Christianity were influenced by Horus and Dionysus beliefs (though some will deny it anyway). That said, there's been some truly horrific and sloppy work done that makes too much of it. The quintessentially bad '16 crucified saviors' and much of what it's spawned comes to mind. Unfortunately, this abundant bad work tends to discredit solid work along the same lines.

Toto

It is the consensus of this board that Tom Harpur's version of Christianity as based on Egyptian religion is lacking. But that does not mean that there are no parallels.

There are some unsophisticated and erroneous attempts to find parallels between Jesus and any random mythological god, which are used by as blunt weapons against Christianity. But one can go beyond this to see common themes in mythology, which are more interesting and less ideologically motivated, and less likely to be part of some proof that Jesus never existed.

This thread was only in February: Jesus is Horus/Osiris

Even more recently: Resurrection of Horus

Notes from Robert Price on Hellenistic Parallels to the Gospel of John

Zeitgeist companion guide - note the differences between Acharya's more sophisticated version and the movie guide.

But I don't see the point in rehashing all this unless you have some new arguments or perspectives.

Malachi151

Can we simply get a list in this thread of the supposed parallels between Jesus and Horus, anyone?

I can tell you this, I've done the research myself and I find not one single legitimate meaningful parallel. Both were male.... umm... okay. Both were killed and then "came back to life".... ummm... okay. Other than that, I not only see no evidence for influence, but I see a lot of evidence against there having been any influence.

Toto

First of all, what is the theoretical structure you have in mind that would make these parallels relevant?

Would this be an effort to prove or disprove that Christianity was merely an unimaginative copy of the Egyptian religion? You can check out JP Holding's list.

But what if your theory is that Christianity incorporated Egyptian elements - i.e., a more imaginative copycat religion, or a religion that copied some elements and added them to a Jewish base? Or that Christianity and the Egyptian religion share some common elements because they both arose at a particular time and place in history?

I mean, you can find some similarities and some differences, and lots of things that are sort of similar but not exactly.

If you are trying to defend Christianity from the charge of pagan mimicry, you emphasize the differences. If you are studying comparative religion, you might be more interested in the similarities.

But if Christianity did draw elements from Egyptian or other pagan religions in a creative and imaginative way, we might not expect to find any exact parallels at all - just a similar gestalt.

I know that periodically someone pops in here and posts the lists of parallels from Acharya S's Christ Conspiracy, as if that proves something. But I am at a complete loss as to why this is so popular or what I can do about it.

Maybe Malachi should reference the evidence against any influence.

Steven Carr

Are the parallels between Horus and Jesus as strong as the parallels between John the Baptist and Elijah? (both wore a leather belt, for example)

PhilVaz

Go to a university library, take out their 10 best books on Horus and Egyptian religion, and you come up with this:

All About Horus: An Egyptian Copy of Christ?

I need something on the Luxor inscription, but its basically done.

An atheist blogger (Consigliere) concludes in his analysis "Ending the Myth of Horus" :

"....I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them."

I concur with these, although the healing miracles are associated with Horus-the-Child. Horus was (like Jesus) a "son of God" since he was son of Isis and Osiris, and he was (like Jesus) a lord and a king, as Jesus was "King of Kings" and "Lord of Lords" (book of Revelation). That's it.

Phil P

Roger Pearse

I'm glad that someone has taken this modern Horus story and gone through it in such detail. Well done, Phil.

PhilVaz

<< I'm glad that someone has taken this modern Horus story and gone through it in such detail. Well done, Phil. >>

Thanks, took about a week. As for the Luxor inscription, Richard Carrier has a short article on it already. I just wanted to verify whether he is correct, but I could take the easy way and just summarize his article found here:

Carrier on Luxor

Phil P