Half-Life

I have read the whole Isaiah chapter about the Virgin birth prophecy. Now, after reading this, it seems "plain as day" to me that Isaiah is talking about the King having a child in this chapter, not years later referring to Jesus.

See, if we read the chapter where young woman or virgin is mentioned, it says "You shall call him Immanuel, which means God is with us."

Now in Isaiah Chapter 8, we see a woman who gives birth and names the child and GOD starts calling the child Immanuel.

Immanuel wasn't the child's birth name. it just means "God with us." The child had a regular name in Chapter 8 which was called by his parents and God called him Immanuel.


Even in chapter 7 it says "behold a young woman / virgin shall give birth and be with child"

Very next chapter it says "and so she conceived and bore a son."

However, here is what is puzzling me.

if this prophecy is so easy to pick apart and not believe, why do so many Christians still defend it? Why doesn't the Roman Catholic church just read it and see the woman gives birth in the very next chapter?!?!?!?!?!?

Is it really that hard to do?!?!?

So, why don't they denounce it?

protestants don't believe Virgin birth I'm assuming, why do Roman Catholics and other sects just HAVE to?

NOTE: I am not a skeptic that somehow denounced Christianity, I am simply stating this prophecy was never meant to be a prophecy)

cgordon

Damn. You MIGHT be starting to get a clue. If any PART of Biblical Christianity can be discounted like this ... it must ALL be suspect.

That's the beginning of wisdom, that is.

And for the record and your info, MOST Protties DO believe in the virgin birth. It's one of the basic tenets of Christianity and was hammered into dogma when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome, therefore setting the stage for ALL of Christendom, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestantism (and all the sub-segments thereof, no matter how whacked out) to bloom.

chrisengland

Protestants don't believe the virgin birth.
Are you shore?

Half-Life

Well, just because Christians were mistaken and thought this was a prophecy about Jesus is no reason for me to think the whole faith is bogus. There are plenty of sects that don't believe in Virgin birth and are still christians.

cgordon

Which sects of modern Christianity don't believe in the VB?

What part of "Born of a virgin" are you doubting? And what are your logical conclusions about that?

Toto

Protestants do believe in the virgin birth as a matter of dogma. The more liberal Protestants don't make a big point of it, or treat it as something of a charming folk tale. The more liberal scholars have analyzed Matt and Luke and try to maintain that the text does not really talk about a virgin birth, just a normal conception, but one that was blessed by god in some manner. Check the later discussion on the thread about "Was Mary Raped?"

premjan

There's some psychological charge in believing in miracles.

Half-Life

Another thing I don't get is, if you believe in Virgin birth, why did God do that?

Put a child in a 14 year old girl for no reason when God could have just shown up, placed the baby next to Mary and that's that.

O what if he shot Jesus through the sky like a shooting star and he landed right next to them?

That would've made for a lot of historical writings from people.

schilling.klaus

no, Marcionists and other true Christians don't depend on Constantinian frauds .
Only those pseudo-Christians who see any authority in the OT and the NT do depend on them.

Klaus Schilling

Equinox

Nearly all churches with a stated doctrine on it claim the virgin birth. The difference between Cathy-licks and protestants on the issue of Mary’s virginity is AFTER the birth of Jesus. Both say Mary was virgin before the birth (no sex during the pregnancy either - see Mt 1:25). C & orthodox say Mary is ever-virgin, protestants say she had kids later (see Mk 3:31, for instance). But all agree Mary was virgin until after Jesus’ birth.

Some very liberal churches like the Episcopal church tolerate people saying the virgin birth isn’t true, but it’s not doctrine. I’d be interested if you can point us to ANY stated doctrine from ANY church that says the Jesus was not born of a virgin.

Equinox