yalla

"Mark" 5. 1-13

"They came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the
Ger'asenes *. And when he had come out of the boat, there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, who lived among the tombs; and no one could bind him any more, even with a chain; for he had often been bound with fetters and chains, but the chains he wrenched apart, and the fetters he broke in pieces; and no one had the strength to subdue him.
Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out, and bruising himself with stones.
And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped him; and crying out with a loud voice, he said, "What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me."
For he had said to him, "Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!"
And Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" He replied, "My name is Legion; for we are many."
And he begged him eagerly not to send them out of the country.
Now a great herd of swine was feeding there on the hillside;
and they begged him, "Send us to the swine, let us enter them."
So he gave them leave. And the unclean spirits came out, and entered the swine; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea, and were drowned in the sea."

*Some texts have 'Gergesenes' [from Origen?], "Matthew" has 'Gadarenes', "Luke" 8.26 has "Gerasenes" "..which is opposite Galilee".


Comment by Hugh Anderson: "The New Century Bible Commentary - The Gospel of Mark" Pub. Marshall, Morgan & Scott, London 1976

"Gadara is some eight miles [about 13 kms] from the lake [Sea of Galilee], but its'territory' may have stretched to the shore.
Gerasa, however, is over thirty miles [about 50 kms.] to the south-east of the lake, too far away for the setting of the story which demands a city in the vicinity of the lake with a precipitous slope down to the water nearby. That Mark ... thought of it as close to the lake [verse 14] does not say much for his acquaintance with Palestinian topography. Probably all that concerned him was that the story was set in the partially Gentile territory of the Decapolois."
My emphasis.

rhutchin

We read in the synoptics of:

1. "...country of the Gergesenes,..." Matthew 8:28

2. "...the country of the Gadarenes..." Mark 5:1

3. "...country of the Gerasenes,..." Luke 8:26

We can explain the different geographic names in the following manner.

Matthew can identify the people relative to the closet town, Gergesa (the modern Kersa), thus he identifies the country of the Gergesenes.

Mark can identify the people relative to the largest nearby city, Gadara, thus he identifies the country of the Gadarenes.

Luke can identify the people relative to region, thus he identifies the country of the Gerasenes.

In the same way, we can identify people living in California as Californians, westerners, or Americans depending on the audience to whom one is writing.

This explanation has been taken from Smith's Bible Dictionary.

"These three names are used indiscriminately to designate the place where Jesus healed two demoniacs. The first two are in the Authorized Version. Mt 8:28; Mr 5:1; Lu 8:26 In Gerasenes in place of Gadarenes. The miracle referred to took place, without doubt, near the town of Gergesa, the modern Kersa, close by the eastern shore of the Sea of Galilee, and hence in the country of Gergesenes. But as Gergesa was a small village, and little known, the evangelists, who wrote for more distant readers, spoke of the event as taking place in the country of the Gadarenes, so named from its largest city, Gadara; and this country included the country of the Gergesenes as a state includes a county. The Gerasenes were the people of the district of which Gerasa was the capital. This city was better known than Gadara or Gergesa; indeed in the Roman age no city of Palestine was better known. "It became one of the proudest cities of Syria." It was situated some 30 miles southeast of Gadara, on the borders of Peraea and a little north of the river Jabbok. It is now called Jerash and is a deserted ruin. The district of the Gerasenes probably included that of the Gadarenes; so that the demoniac of Gergesa belonged to the country of the Gadarenes and also to that of the Gerasenes, as the same person may, with equal truth, be said to live in the city or the state, or in the United States. For those near by the local name would be used; but in writing to a distant people, as the Greeks and Romans, the more comprehensive and general name would be given."

Differences in the geographic names found in the gospels does not imply error by any of the writers and certainly does not provide proof for that conclusion.

yalla

No.
We read in the original synoptic ["Mark"] that the town was "Gerasa".
Not 'Gadara' which is a later scribal amendment, as is Gergesa.

Even Gadara is too far away to allow the story to be tenable.
Gergesa is another attempt by later scribes to amend the obvious error of setting the story too far away from its purported locale.
The number of alternative names, alternative to the original of Gerasa, is a syptom of the recognition of the problem.
And between both Gadara and Gerasa and the sea is a river, today the River Yarmuk.

So postulating the concept of 'region', ignoring that both "matthew" and 'Luke' based their story on the original "Mark", ignoring the original Gerasa, which remember is 50 kms away, and thats a long way for pigs to rush, citing apologetic speculation that attempts to disguise the clear naming of the place as Gerrasa just doesn't cut it I'm sorry.

Gerasa is about 30 miles or 50 kms away from the Sea of Galilee to which the swine are alleged to have rushed.

yalla

http://en.allexperts.com/e/g/ge/gergesa.htm

"Scholars debate the correct site of the miracle and modern translations have multiple readings of the Gospels. However, the earliest texts are very clear as to the original version of the synoptic Gospels. Upon close observation of the earliest and best Greek manuscripts, the Alexandrian texts, the original reading of Matthew is "in the region of the Gadarenes," and the original text of Mark and Luke is "in the country of the Gerasenes" This explanation however, does not account for the name Gergesa, which never appears in the earliest Greek manuscripts, and must have been a later addition, not in the original autographs. It is therefore necessary to find if there was a change made to the text, introducing Gergesa as the appropriate site of the miracle. The original textual alteration was made during the early third century by the church father Origen. In his Commentary of John Books 1-10, Origen changes the original text of Matthew from "in the region of the Gadarenes" to "in the region of the Gergasenes," using one main reason to substantiate his bold alteration. Because of the lasting impact Origen had upon the text and where the miracle was believed to be located, it is necessary to consider his motive for the change ….."


.
Origen, c185-254 CE, lived in Caesarea Maritima for a while and:

"From Caesarea Origen visited different parts of Palestine: Jerusalem, Jericho, the valley of the Jordan (t. vi. in Joh. § 24); Sidon, where he made some stay (Hom. in Josh. xvi. § 2), partly at least to investigate "the footsteps of Jesus, and of His disciples, and of the prophets" [from theWace introduction at Early Christian Writings],"

Lets see what he has to say.

“The transaction about the swine, which were driven down a steep place by the demons and drowned in the sea, is said to have taken place in the country of the Gerasenes Now, Gerasa is a town of Arabia, and has near it neither sea nor lake. And the Evangelists would not have made a statement so obviously and demonstrably false; for they were men who informed themselves carefully of all matters connected with Judæa. But in a few copies we have found, “into the country of the Gadarenes;” and, on this reading, it is to be stated that Gadara is a town of Judæa, in the neighbourhood of which are the well-known hot springs, and that there is no lake there with overhanging banks, nor any sea. ……[he goes on to talk about Gergesa]”

It was because he knew that the story could not be set in either Gerasa or Gadara that Origen came up with another speculation namely Gergesa.

Source.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-N..._VI/Chapter_24

Way back in the third century christian apologists knew that Gerasa presented problems and were searching for ways to circumvent it.
They are still trying.

Doug Shaver

Is it only the gospels to which that rule should be applied? Or is it a general rule that we should apply when assessing any set of ancient documents produced by several writers?

rhutchin

OK. Differences in the geographic names found in the Bible does not imply error by any of the writers.

yalla

Origen thought it did.

Doug Shaver

Why only that book? Would it possibly be because you happen to belong to a religion that includes, among its dogmas, one that says the Bible, and only the Bible among all the books that have ever been written, cannot have any errors in it?

rhutchin

The Bible only because that which we read in it is said to be inspired By God and no other writings are thought to be inspired by God and therefore are not included in the Bible. It is because the original writings were inspired by God that they are said to be inerrant. This is unique to the Christian religion as Muslims and Mormons also like to claim that their books are inspired by God and also inerrant.

Johnny Skeptic

No book is inerrant merely because it claims to be inerrant.

There is not any historical, scientific, philosphical, or logical evidence that reasonably proves that the Bible is inerrant.

Even many conservative Christian experts know that the Bible contains errors. No rational Bible scholar would claim that there are not any interpolations in the Bible.

By "inerrancy," I mean the belief that God inspired the originals, and preserved them free of errors except for copyist errors.