Killer Mike

I just finished reading "The Messiah Before Jesus: The Suffering Servent of the Dead Sea Scrolls" by Isreal Knohl. Knohl is in the religious studies department at the Hebrew University. He describes a story found within the dead sea scrolls of a messianic leader who died at the hands of the Romans during a revolt in the year 4BC (one generation before Jesus). The Romans refused to let the body be buried and his disciples believed him to have risen from the dead on the 3rd day.
Just wondering if anyone has thoughts on the importance of this, in relation to the Origins of Christianity?

Barefoot Bree

No, but I think this is more of a GRD topic, so off you go...

jonesg

I believe the romans prevented any crucified body from burial, the dogs ate the bones, it was considered a greater shame than being crucified.

Killer Mike

Agreed. It was also common practice for the Romans to let bodies hang on crosses for days following these kinds of executions. As John Dominic Crossen of DePaul University in Chicago notes. To let the body hang there and rot away, was done to intimidate and remind people of the penalty for not following Roman authority. The Gospel stories of an empty tomb is not historical, its mythological.

Jagella

Coincidentally, I was just thinking about the historical basis for the Jesus of the gospel writers. My hypothesis is that the “Jesus� mentioned in the gospels may be a composite figure comprised of two or more historical figures. “The suffering servant of the Dead Sea Scrolls� may be one of several itinerant preachers that lived around the time Jesus is reputed to have lived. The gospel writers could very well have created Jesus from these preachers. Historians have discovered several men who have some very striking similarities to Jesus including apocalyptic preaching and legends that they rose from the dead. Interestingly, “Jesus� was a very common name for Jews of that day, and the gospel writers may have used that name to represent their messiah as a generic holy man similar to the “John Doe� names we use to refer to “the average Joes� of today.

Jagella

Toto

This topic belongs in BCH, where it can join another thread on Knohl:

The suffering servant

The Amazon link for the book is here.

Knohl's theory is highly speculative, one of many that attempts to connect the Teacher of Righteousness from the DSS with Jesus. It is an interesting idea to play around with, even if it is wrong.

Cynthia of Syracuse

Toto is right, and so off you go....

jonesg

Well maybe it opens up the possibility of what I have heard muslims state, that they bribed the guards and HID the body.
Didn't Mohamed so that too?

CX

Well, there's just as much evidence for that as there is for the burial in a rich man's tomb. Which is to say, of course, none whatsoever.

rlogan

Hi K.M.

The Teacher of Righteousness is mentioned in the Damascus Document, but it is a fleeting reference and there is nothing about him being killed in 4 BC. That must be an inference drawn by the author. There is another figure mentioned in the Community Rule document, but I believe we're talking T of R here. Various authorities have speculated about this fellow, and its all over the map on account of the reference being so vague.


That there were many, many leaders of cults and revolts that served as grist for the Bible mill.

What we have to see in the Bible is the importance of the destruction of the central temple authority, the Diaspora, and the "mixing bowl" of hellanized society. Here we have fertile ground for spawning of a hybrid.

We need motive, means, and opportunity. The humiliation of an existing religion creates instant motivation for either its modification or replacement. The disaffected are the means. At the same time there is no authority command structure to stamp out heresy and so opportunity is ample.