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|  05-13-2007, 04:44 PM | #31 | 
| Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. 
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			Is Michael Grant here using irony at the  same nexus in ancient history described twice by Momigliano as a "miracle"? "Trances and visions and hallucinationsConstantine was able to convince himself that he had been granted a supernatural experience. Is this not rather a strange way for an ancient historian to describe the turning point in the rise of christianity? On 28 October 312 the Christians suddenly and | 
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|  05-13-2007, 06:41 PM | #32 | 
| Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area 
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			Michael Grant is a secularist, sometimes accused here by Christians of atheism. He is using the conventional formula nonbelievers use when they talk about claimed miracles in ancient history - that people believed that they had a supernatural experience. We all know that there are people today who believe that have they had a supernatural experience, even if they can't claim Randi's prize and secularists think that they are deluded. But the word miracle has been so degraded by common usage and advertising that to say something was a miracle does not necessarily mean that the author thinks that anything supernatural was involved. (A common food on American shelves is "Miracle Whip" - an overly sweet substitute for mayonnaise.) I would think that adding "opinions differed" makes it clear that the author is not endorsing the supernatural nature of the miracle. Other than that, you are not getting anywhere. There is nothing in this that states or implies that Christianity suddenly popped into existence when Constantine saw the "miraculous" sign. | 
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