Freethought & Rationalism Archive

richard2 · 09-25-2005, 10:57 PM

Hi,

First, I'm not a biblical scholar or an expert on Christian origins, so I apologize if the following has already been pointed out, but I couldn't help noticing a possible connection between the following verses:

In Matthew 24, Jesus tells us when he is coming again and the signs thereof, and then he says:

"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

Now 2 Peter 3-7 reads:

"First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."

Why would the scoffers say that "ever since our fathers died..."? Is it because they knew of Jesus' saying that this "'this generation' shall not pass away..." until his coming and that the word generation was meant to be understood as 'generation and not 'race' or 'age'? If so, then how could 2 Peter be written by the Apostle Peter? He was a part of that generation that would not pass away. And he doesn't say anything about their misinterpretation of the word 'generation' or that there are many of his generation still living. Instead, he makes a very lame excuse.

Again, I apologize if I'm repeating old stuff here; I would like more info on the subject from you guys.

Johnny Skeptic · 09-25-2005, 11:15 PM

Jesus basically said that when the Gospel of the kingdom has been preached unto all nations, the end would come, but the Gospel of the Kingdom "has" been preached unto all nations, and the end has not come. It is my position that a thousand years from now, the end will still not have come, and Christianity will have disappeared.

richard2 · 09-25-2005, 11:18 PM

Thanks for the post.

I am reading now the page on 2 Peter from earlychristianwritings.org. Very informative stuff that answers a lot of my questions.

Toto · 09-25-2005, 11:34 PM

2 Peter.

Clearly 2 Peter did not originate with a Peter described in the Gospels, who was a disciple of a n early first century teacher named Jesus.

gregor · 09-26-2005, 05:49 AM

2 Peter is the best rebuttal to both preterists, who state that the promised second coming was figurative and occurred with the fall of the Temple in 70 CE and those who assert that "this generation" meant the generation that was alive when the first of the signs occurred.

John Kesler · 09-26-2005, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregor

2 Peter is the best rebuttal to both preterists, who state that the promised second coming was figurative and occurred with the fall of the Temple in 70 CE and those who assert that "this generation" meant the generation that was alive when the first of the signs occurred.

Also compare the tone of 1 Peter to that of 2 Peter. It is apparent that while 1 Peter states that the Parousia is imminent, 2 Peter atempts to exlain its delay.

Quote:

1 Peter 4:7
7 The end of all things is near;therefore be serious and discipline yourselves for the sake of your prayers.

2 Peter 3:3-9
3 First of all you must understand this, that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!" 5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water, 6 through which the world of that time was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the godless.
8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

richard2 · 09-27-2005, 02:22 AM

But we should just be good little boys and girls by believing and putting our faith in such documents anyway.

09-25-2005, 10:57 PM	#1
richard2 Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Nox Planet Posts: 438	This generation shall not pass and 2 Peter Hi, First, I'm not a biblical scholar or an expert on Christian origins, so I apologize if the following has already been pointed out, but I couldn't help noticing a possible connection between the following verses: In Matthew 24, Jesus tells us when he is coming again and the signs thereof, and then he says: "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Now 2 Peter 3-7 reads: "First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men." Why would the scoffers say that "ever since our fathers died..."? Is it because they knew of Jesus' saying that this "'this generation' shall not pass away..." until his coming and that the word generation was meant to be understood as 'generation and not 'race' or 'age'? If so, then how could 2 Peter be written by the Apostle Peter? He was a part of that generation that would not pass away. And he doesn't say anything about their misinterpretation of the word 'generation' or that there are many of his generation still living. Instead, he makes a very lame excuse. Again, I apologize if I'm repeating old stuff here; I would like more info on the subject from you guys.

09-25-2005, 11:15 PM	#2
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	The return of Jesus Jesus basically said that when the Gospel of the kingdom has been preached unto all nations, the end would come, but the Gospel of the Kingdom "has" been preached unto all nations, and the end has not come. It is my position that a thousand years from now, the end will still not have come, and Christianity will have disappeared.

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09-25-2005, 11:18 PM	#3
richard2 Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Nox Planet Posts: 438	Thanks for the post. I am reading now the page on 2 Peter from earlychristianwritings.org. Very informative stuff that answers a lot of my questions.

09-25-2005, 11:34 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	2 Peter. Clearly 2 Peter did not originate with a Peter described in the Gospels, who was a disciple of a n early first century teacher named Jesus.

09-26-2005, 05:49 AM	#5
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	2 Peter is the best rebuttal to both preterists, who state that the promised second coming was figurative and occurred with the fall of the Temple in 70 CE and those who assert that "this generation" meant the generation that was alive when the first of the signs occurred.

09-27-2005, 02:22 AM	#7
richard2 Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Nox Planet Posts: 438	But we should just be good little boys and girls by believing and putting our faith in such documents anyway.

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