Jesus McGod

Steven Carr, read the O/P. The information I want is not information about Thallus, who he might have been or what he may have written. The information I am requesting is the name of Christian scholars who are honest enough to admit that Thallus was not a witness to any of the events pertaining to the Resurrection that I might read articles or books by them.

I already know about Thallus.

Iasion, thanks for that link. In usual Carrier fashion, he just spells it out like it is. I had previously read Wells, Fernandes, Strobel & McDowell's views on Thallus (Wells being the only voice of reason of the 4 in this area).

Toto

You might want to check out Evidence for Jesus by RT France, discussed here.

I have no idea how conservative France is, or much about his theology.

Bede

Well clearly you don't. You give us an OP full of an amazing amount of rubbish for its brevity making unsubstantiated allegations of dishonesty which you then refuse to detail.

If I started a thread with 'Earl Doherty is a liar because his presentation of Hebrews is rubbish' (which, incidently it is) I would be required to do more than show he was wrong.

Thallus is reported by Julius Africanus as saying the darkness reported by Matt at the crucifixion was called an eclipse by Thallus. So Julius, who has all of Thallus's history available believes Thallus reports the darkness and thus backs up Matt's account. This may be wrong and Julius may have made a mistake (although he was one of the greatest scholars of his time so we shouldn't dismiss his evidence too lightly). But to say Thallus is evidence is not dishonest. Thallus IS evidence that some commentators, namely Wells and Carrier, choose to dismiss. That's their prerogative but you seem to be defining 'dishonest' as 'disagrees with Wells and Carrier'. Certainly we can be forgiven for not being aware of the German texts Carr provides.

And, your most stupid mistake, a part from confusing Doherty and Straubel (happens all the time), is to say Thallus is evidence for the resurrection. I bet NO ONE says this because the darkness took place at the crucifixion.

Hence, you OP was a lie in itself. And my initial impression of you is reinforced every time you post.

Bede

RT France was pretty conservative.

Vorkosigan

LOL. Bede, looks like you need a day at the golf course followed by a few pints and some raucus shouting for your side in the local football match. Put those books down, son!

Vorkosigan

offa

The extra hours of darkness is a play on words (not an eclipse). There was an intercalation. Get you search engines tuned up and look for cockcrowing in the gospels. Look in a dictionary and get cockcrowing defined. The reason the cock crew twice was because the clock was "falling back". The cock had a double duty. And you guys thought Ben Franklin invented daylight savings time!

Steven Carr

Just shows what liars Christians like Julius were. Or bad historians, as Julius never quotes Thallus.

But you can' be forgiven for not telling people that we do not have what Thallus wrote, and we don't even know when he wrote, or who he was.

Steven Carr

Google, click,click, cut, paste
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2...-evidence.html

An articles entitled 'THE EVIDENCE FOR JESUS’ HISTORICAL RESURRECTION'



'Numerous contemporaneous non-biblical and secular writers, living within 150 years of Jesus’ life, some of whom are outright hostile, mention Jesus’ existence, including Roman writers Tacitus, Seutonius, Thallus, and Pliny, and the Jewish writings of Josephus and the Talmud.'

CARR
More Christian lies , of course. Thallus never mentioned Jesus, as Bede will confirm.

---------------------

http://www.socc.org/EducationAndWors...urrection.html
An article entitled 'The Resurrection'

'Thallus, a Greek philosopher who lived in Samaria, wrote (ca 52 AD) that total darkness covered the entire Roman empire at the crucifixion. '

CARR
Hopefully, Bede will retract his claim that nobody says Thallus is evidence for the resurrection.

Bede

Carr, can you read or are you lying?

Here we have Thallus used as evidence for the existence of Jesus. Perhaps wrongly but it is a fair reading of Julius Africanus. THALLUS IS NOT USED AS EVIDENCE FOR THE RESURRECTION.

Thallus here is used as evidence for the crucifixion. THALLUS NOT USED AS EVIDENCE FOR THE RESURRECTION. So Carr is lying now (as lie seems to be the prefered word for making stupid mistake).

This thread needs closing forewith. It is useless and full of lying atheists.

Steven Carr

I notice that Bede was forced to cut from my posting the article heading of 'THE EVIDENCE FOR JESUS’ HISTORICAL RESURRECTION'

Thallis is quoted an article, entitled (in caps) ''THE EVIDENCE FOR JESUS’ HISTORICAL RESURRECTION'.

Bede chops out the article heading and then denies point-blank that Thallus is used in articles setting out the evidence for Jesus' historical resurrection.

Truly there is no end to his shameless attempts to discredit atheists.