Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jesus McGod · 11-27-2003, 03:39 PM

When a Christian apologist, writing on the subject of Jesus historicity cites Thallus as evidence of the resurrection, I automatically brush him/her off as a dogmatic whacko.

So far, Doherty, Fernandes and McDowell have been thusly written off. Are there any serious, conservative JC historians on the Christian side who are honest enough to not cite Thallus?

11-27-2003, 03:46 PM

And why would that be? What makes Thallus the ideal text case? Incidently, when an atheist on these boards uses a name calculated to offend Christians, I automatically write them off as a prat. Perhaps it's just me.

Jesus McGod · 11-27-2003, 03:52 PM

Because the facts regarding Thallus are so slim that to cite him as a reliable witness to the resurrection requires utter suspension of rationality. Only thoroughly dishonest and or dogmatic historians will cite Thallus.

I want to read a book or article from an honest Christian historian's perspective. Is that so bad?

11-27-2003, 05:01 PM

Could you tell us these facts? And some examples of how Thallus gets cited by these dishonest apologists? And how you can tell the facts are not reliable? I assume this unreliability must all be so obvious that only dishonesty can be the cause of disagreement, rather than simply differences of opinion.

Jesus McGod · 11-27-2003, 05:03 PM

No. This thread addresses those who know that Thallus citations are bullshit, not those who don't. This thread is not about the validity of Thallus citations. It is a request for information.

Quote:

I assume this unreliability must all be so obvious that only dishonesty can be the cause of disagreement

Why would you assume that? I said dishonesty and or dogmatism.

This is clearly not the thread for you. Please back out. Besides, I thought you had written me off as a prat.

11-27-2003, 07:31 PM

Greetings,

Quote:

So far, Doherty, Fernandes and McDowell have been thusly written off.

Pardon?
Do you mean Earl Doherty?

Earl Doherty is the most well-known MYTHICIST,
he does NOT argue for the resurrection.

Furthermore, he does NOT cite Thallus as evidence for the resurrection at all.

Here is what he says about Thallus :

Quote:

Doherty: There are those who appeal to obscure references in the historians Thallus and Phlegon about eclipses of the sun allegedly associated with the crucifixion, but such pagan writers, their works now lost, come to us only through Christian commentators.

Iasion

Jesus McGod · 11-27-2003, 07:36 PM

I APOLOGIZE TO EARL DOHERTY!!! I was thinking about him and typed it when I meant to type "Strobel" as in Lee Strobel.

Thanks for catching that for me.

11-27-2003, 07:39 PM

Greetings,

Yah,
I figured it was just a little glitch.

Have you seen Richard Carrier's work? :

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...r/thallus.html

Iasion

Layman · 11-27-2003, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bede
Could you tell us these facts? And some examples of how Thallus gets cited by these dishonest apologists? And how you can tell the facts are not reliable? I assume this unreliability must all be so obvious that only dishonesty can be the cause of disagreement, rather than simply differences of opinion.

Bede,

I appreciate your efforts but I think, given the OP and the OP's author, we probably are looking in the wrong thread for anything substantive.

Steven Carr · 11-27-2003, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesus McGod
This thread addresses those who know that Thallus citations are bullshit, not those who don't. This thread is not about the validity of Thallus citations. It is a request for information.

What information do you want?

I have photocopies of a work on Thallus at
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/jacobe1.jpg
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/jacobe2.jpg
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/jacobe3.jpg

It states 'dass Thallus diese Sonnenfinsternis in Zusammenhang mit der juedischen Geschicte erwaehnte, wie allgemein angenommen, ist ganz zweifelhaft.'

That Thallus mentioned this solar eclipse in the context of Jewish history, as generally accepted, is very doubtful.

11-27-2003, 03:39 PM	#1
Jesus McGod Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 168	Thallus as a litmus test When a Christian apologist, writing on the subject of Jesus historicity cites Thallus as evidence of the resurrection, I automatically brush him/her off as a dogmatic whacko. So far, Doherty, Fernandes and McDowell have been thusly written off. Are there any serious, conservative JC historians on the Christian side who are honest enough to not cite Thallus?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-27-2003, 03:46 PM	#2
Bede Guest Posts: n/a	And why would that be? What makes Thallus the ideal text case? Incidently, when an atheist on these boards uses a name calculated to offend Christians, I automatically write them off as a prat. Perhaps it's just me.

11-27-2003, 03:52 PM	#3
Jesus McGod Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 168	Because the facts regarding Thallus are so slim that to cite him as a reliable witness to the resurrection requires utter suspension of rationality. Only thoroughly dishonest and or dogmatic historians will cite Thallus. I want to read a book or article from an honest Christian historian's perspective. Is that so bad?

11-27-2003, 05:01 PM	#4
Bede Guest Posts: n/a	Could you tell us these facts? And some examples of how Thallus gets cited by these dishonest apologists? And how you can tell the facts are not reliable? I assume this unreliability must all be so obvious that only dishonesty can be the cause of disagreement, rather than simply differences of opinion.

11-27-2003, 07:36 PM	#7
Jesus McGod Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 168	I APOLOGIZE TO EARL DOHERTY!!! I was thinking about him and typed it when I meant to type "Strobel" as in Lee Strobel. Thanks for catching that for me.

11-27-2003, 07:39 PM	#8
Iasion Guest Posts: n/a	Greetings, Yah, I figured it was just a little glitch. Have you seen Richard Carrier's work? : http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...r/thallus.html Iasion

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.