Freethought & Rationalism Archive

alienward · 03-02-2006, 02:10 PM

From Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry:

Quote:

One son
(Genesis 22:2) - "And He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."
(Hebrews 11:17) - "By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac; and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son."

Two sons
(Galatians 4:22) - "For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman."

The answer to this apparent contradiction is found in understanding the typological representation of Isaac, Abraham's second born son, as a type of Christ. Abraham had Ishmael by the handmaiden Hagar. But Isaac was the child of promise, not Ishmael: "But God said to Abraham, "Do not be distressed because of the lad and your maid; whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her, for through Isaac your descendants shall be named,'" (Gen. 21:12).

Does anyone know if there are other excuses used for this contradiction? If Isaac was a type of Christ, wouldn’t Abraham not be his “real” dad?

Anat · 03-02-2006, 03:02 PM

Here is what Midrash Rabbah has to say:
Midrash on Aqedah

Quote:

The wording about the "only son" in Genesis 22:2 triggers some midrash in Midrash Rabbah and elsewhere, because Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. That seems to be a problem, but one that can be worked out with midrashic imagination.

"And He said, 'Take, I pray, your son, etc.'" Said He to him, "Take, I pray you -- I beg you -- your son..." Abraham asked, "Which son?" "Your only son...," replied He. "But each is the only son of his mother." "Whom you love..." "Is there a limit to the affections?" "Even Isaac," said He.

And why did He not reveal it to him without delay? In order to make him (Isaac) even more beloved in his eyes and to reward him for every word spoken.

IOW God was deliberately giving Abraham a hard time, to make his dilemma tougher by using 'your only son' as a term of endearment, so that once Abraham passas the test he would earn an even greater reward.

alienward · 03-02-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anat

IOW God was deliberately giving Abraham a hard time, to make his dilemma tougher by using 'your only son' as a term of endearment, so that once Abraham passas the test he would earn an even greater reward.

Thanks. So the god telling Abraham to burn Isaac up wasn't a tough enough test. The god had to make it tougher by messing with Abraham's mind by telling him Isaac was his only son. Yes, that requires using your imagination allright.

Doug Shaver · 03-03-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienward

Does anyone know if there are other excuses used for this contradiction?

It's the only one I've seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienward

If Isaac was a type of Christ, wouldn’t Abraham not be his “real” dad?

In Christian thinking, typology is not an exact science.

For any given association between the type and the fulfillment, some things are relevant and some are not. Isaac's biological paternity was not relevant to whether or not he was the son who had been promised to Abraham.

CaliNORML · 03-03-2006, 08:06 PM

I see this as a part of that political movement to power, a "rightfull" heir to rule a people.

Sarah and Abraham were married under a certain faith, when Sarah was barren for so long she gave a hand maiden Haagar to Abraham that he may have an heir. Then Sarah became pregnant and started to worry about her own son's birthrite.

What happened as a result was that Isaac and his mother were left alone in the wilderness and Sarahs son grew up to rule the people of those tribes, yet Abraham did not sacrifice his first born son, in fact he returned to visit him and his mother many many times, he even founded the Khaba, the most sacred site of Muslims.

Isaac's decendants came forward years later to found Islam another faith of the same God, Abraham's. The same God which promised that his decendants would be as numerous stars in the heavens upon the land. The most telling thing in that promise to Abraham is that there is no mention of SARAH and Abraham's children, only the man.

Jewish, Muslim, and Christianity have for years claimed a right and a leader of the Nations of God due to this status of leaders birth within them, this I believe was nothing but a political ploy to have one line out rank another for leadership.

In a very real way Abraham did sacrifice his son, to the political pressure he felt within his own tribe for a leader of their own blood lines.

KMS

Anat · 03-03-2006, 08:25 PM

Ishmael participated in Abraham's burial according to Genesis, so I guess he was able to forgive his father for casting him out.

According to midrash Isaac's blindness in his old age was the result of angel tears falling into his eyes while he lay on the altar - which is their way of saying he was altered irreversibly by the experience (wouldn't anyone be?).

Also, the midrash has Sarah dying while the Aqedah was taking place - either for fear for Isaac or out of relief when she hears what happened and that he was safe.

Then after her death Abraham marries Keturah and has more sons. According to one midrash Keturah was an offspring of Japhet (while Sarah was of Shem's line and Hagar of Ham's), but according to another midrash Keturah was Hagar, who was brought back into Abraham's life by Isaac while Eliezer went to Aram to find a wife for Isaac. (soap opera anyone?)

Anat · 03-03-2006, 08:29 PM

And here is Yehuda Amichai's take on the Aqedah:

From Aqedah poem

Quote:

Three sons had Abraham, not just two.

Three sons had Abraham: Yishma-El, Yitzhak, and Yivkeh.

First came Yishma-El, "God will hear,"

next came Yitzhak, "he will laugh,"

and the last was Yivkeh, for he was the youngest,

the son that Father loved best,

the son who was offered up on Mount Moriah.

Yishma-El was saved by his mother, Hagar,

Yitzhak was saved by the angel,

but Yivkeh no one saved.

When he was just a little boy, his father

would call him tenderly, Yivkeh,

Yivkeleh, my sweet little Yivkie

but he sacrificed him all the same.

The Torah says the ram, but it was Yivkeh.

Yishma-El never heard from God again,

Yitzhak never laughed again,

Sarah laughed only once, then laughed no more.

Three sons had Abraham,

Yishma, "will hear," Yitzhak, "will laugh," Yivkeh, "will cry."

Yismah-El, Yitzhak-El, Yivkeh-El.

God will hear, God will laugh, God will cry.

CaliNORML · 03-04-2006, 08:14 PM

Most Awesome Anat!!!!!!!!

You have like totally made my week, I love these stories and this one is most assuredly a gem in my collection.

Thanks for sharing this one, right on.

So what happened to this tribe? Where did they go? Is this akin to the Levi tribe? I should have known a trinity would have to arise, they usually always do so is a good plot.

KMS

I do so love Operas, and life mimics art, only magnified. Just like a good Opera, life is sorrow, life is suffering. Where did I hear those words before? Hm.

Anat · 03-04-2006, 11:15 PM

Are you asking about the sons of Keturah? They are mentioned in Genesis 25:1-6

Quote:

And Abraham took another wife, and her name was Keturah. And she bore him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And Jokshan begot Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim. And the sons of Midian: Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah. And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac. But unto the sons of the concubines, that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts; and he sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

Of the descendants of Keturah one of the famous ones are Midian - from where came Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, but also enemies of the Israelites in the days of the Judges. the other was Sheba - from where came the queen that visited Solomon. I don't know if any of the others are mentioned anywhere else. I guess they were supposed to be ancestors of various nomadic tribes?

CaliNORML · 03-06-2006, 07:05 AM

That was most informative, thanks for the lesson and source.

That seems to tie up alot of loose ends about Moses and other tribes in the area.

Yet of all his sons only the two founded religions of the one God? Do we know if any others started a religion of thier own?

It still amazes me that a claim of inheritance asserted in order to acheive power and political gain is a major force through out religion's history, even knowing that eventualy it leads to their biggest downfalls some men still seek to claim title as ruler over their bretheren and paves the way to their own destruction.

KMS

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03-03-2006, 08:06 PM	#5
CaliNORML Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 293	I see this as a part of that political movement to power, a "rightfull" heir to rule a people. Sarah and Abraham were married under a certain faith, when Sarah was barren for so long she gave a hand maiden Haagar to Abraham that he may have an heir. Then Sarah became pregnant and started to worry about her own son's birthrite. What happened as a result was that Isaac and his mother were left alone in the wilderness and Sarahs son grew up to rule the people of those tribes, yet Abraham did not sacrifice his first born son, in fact he returned to visit him and his mother many many times, he even founded the Khaba, the most sacred site of Muslims. Isaac's decendants came forward years later to found Islam another faith of the same God, Abraham's. The same God which promised that his decendants would be as numerous stars in the heavens upon the land. The most telling thing in that promise to Abraham is that there is no mention of SARAH and Abraham's children, only the man. Jewish, Muslim, and Christianity have for years claimed a right and a leader of the Nations of God due to this status of leaders birth within them, this I believe was nothing but a political ploy to have one line out rank another for leadership. In a very real way Abraham did sacrifice his son, to the political pressure he felt within his own tribe for a leader of their own blood lines. KMS

03-03-2006, 08:25 PM	#6
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	Ishmael participated in Abraham's burial according to Genesis, so I guess he was able to forgive his father for casting him out. According to midrash Isaac's blindness in his old age was the result of angel tears falling into his eyes while he lay on the altar - which is their way of saying he was altered irreversibly by the experience (wouldn't anyone be?). Also, the midrash has Sarah dying while the Aqedah was taking place - either for fear for Isaac or out of relief when she hears what happened and that he was safe. Then after her death Abraham marries Keturah and has more sons. According to one midrash Keturah was an offspring of Japhet (while Sarah was of Shem's line and Hagar of Ham's), but according to another midrash Keturah was Hagar, who was brought back into Abraham's life by Isaac while Eliezer went to Aram to find a wife for Isaac. (soap opera anyone?)

03-04-2006, 08:14 PM	#8
CaliNORML Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 293	Most Awesome Anat!!!!!!!! You have like totally made my week, I love these stories and this one is most assuredly a gem in my collection. Thanks for sharing this one, right on. So what happened to this tribe? Where did they go? Is this akin to the Levi tribe? I should have known a trinity would have to arise, they usually always do so is a good plot. KMS I do so love Operas, and life mimics art, only magnified. Just like a good Opera, life is sorrow, life is suffering. Where did I hear those words before? Hm.

03-06-2006, 07:05 AM	#10
CaliNORML Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 293	That was most informative, thanks for the lesson and source. That seems to tie up alot of loose ends about Moses and other tribes in the area. Yet of all his sons only the two founded religions of the one God? Do we know if any others started a religion of thier own? It still amazes me that a claim of inheritance asserted in order to acheive power and political gain is a major force through out religion's history, even knowing that eventualy it leads to their biggest downfalls some men still seek to claim title as ruler over their bretheren and paves the way to their own destruction. KMS

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