Clivedurdle

Mountainman, I wonder if your ideas are too early? Maybe around 380 is the key date, Constantine is a player on the way?

Bernard Muller

There is no typo here. I remember Carrier saying just that. I think Carrier wanted to say that a "non-Christian" historical Jesus (the nobody Jesus), if accepted as such, would be a better argument against Christianity rather than a mythical Jesus, much more unlikely to be accepted and a lot more difficult to prove (as being the starting point of Christianity).

Cordially, Bernard

aa5874

Whatever you think Carrier said or wanted to say is really irrelevant since HJers have not and cannot prove that there was an historical Jesus.

It is a fact that there has been an on-going QUEST for an historical Jesus for hundreds of years.

It is also a fact that the Quest for an historical Jesus was initiated because the Jesus of the NT is NOT historical.

The Jesus of the NT is a Jesus of FAITH--a Jesus of Mythology.

We know EXACTLY who Jesus was in the NT--the Son of a God born of a Ghost who walked on the sea of Galilee before he Transfigured and was Raised from the dead.

If Jesus of Nazareth was NOT a Resurrecting Transfiguring Sea Water Walker born of a Ghost then the NT is a product of Fiction.

Effectively, the NT is either a Compilation of Mythology or a Product of Fiction.

It is virtually impossible to prove there was an historical Jesus from a compilation of Mythology or Products of Fiction.

Essentially, the Quest for an historical Jesus will be consistently fruitless since those on the Quest for their Jesus cannot identify who he really was and when he actually lived.

mountainman

Hi Clive, I think that it is possible that the Constantinian revolution was focussed on "Jesus Chrestos" and that this was altered after his rule to "Jesus Christos". The existence and the dating of the Nag Hammadi Codices suggest that there was something happening in the religious sector of the empire under Constantine (and then his sons).

When Ammianus refers to the "plain and simple religion of the Christians (or Chrestians)" he may be referring to them thinking that they were "THE GOOD GUYS".



εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Clivedurdle

Good or perfect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

Bernard Muller

Carrier's declaration is here, between 6:10 and 7:50.

Cordially, Bernard

mountainman

χρηστός

Because the orthodox and the heretics both used the "nomina sacra" forms for "Chrestos" or "Christos" the two terms do not seem to be explicated and differentiated in the ancient sources. We have all seen scribal attempts in the 15th century to alter Chrest-variants to Christ-variants. [Tacitus].






More church butchery.

The imperial coinage of Christian persecutions was struck in the 4th century.





εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia