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yummyfur · 05-09-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

"Longinus" is generally held to be derived from the Greek longche meaning spear. How likely is it that either Josephus or the late Christian mythmaker just picked up that name as something appropriate?

John A. Broussard - Longinus's eye problems (variously blindness, incipient blindness, poor eyesight, blindness in one eye) are the most convincing link with the Norse god Hud, the blind archer who was tricked into shooting a mistletoe arrow into Balder.

I've always thought that made some sense for the Christian story, much like the speculation that St. Veronica came from a corruption of "vera icona".

I'm not sure what Josephus's motives would be for making up the name, it wasn't central to the point he was trying to make, so he could have just not named the soldier at all, much like he tells us the victims were known for their courage, but doesn't name them.

On the name Longinus, I thought it was Roman, and so a derivation from the Greek longche, doesn't seem likely. I thought that it was dervied from the Latin longus, meaning long or tall, and was frequent appelation to those in the gens Cassia. I can see a Greek speaker maybe using the Roman name as a play on the Greek word though.

andrewcriddle · 05-10-2005, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Walker also states: Up to Hadrian’s time, victims offered to Zeus at Salamis were anointed with sacred ointments—thus becoming "Anointed Ones" or "Christs"—then hung up and stabbed through the side with a spear.

As far as I can tell the sources for the human sacrifice at Salamis in Cyprus are Lactantius 'Divine Institutes' Book 1

Quote:

Among the people of Cyprus, Teucer sacrificed a human victim to Jupiter, and handed down to posterity that sacrifice which was lately abolished by Hadrian when he was emperor.

and Eusebius 'Praeparatio Evangelica' book 4 quoting Porphyry

Quote:

And in what is now called Salamis, but formerly Coronia, in the month Aphrodisius according to the Cyprians, a man used to be sacrificed to Agraulos, the daughter of Cecrops and a nymph of Agraule. This custom continued until the times of Diomedes; then it changed, so that the man was sacrificed to Diomedes; and the shrine of Athena, and that of Agraulos and Diomedes are under one enclosure. The man to be sacrificed ran thrice round the altar, led by the youths: then the priest struck him in the throat with a spear, and so they offered him as a burnt-sacrifice upon the pyre that was heaped up. But this ordinance was abolished by Diphilus, king of Cyprus, who lived in the times of Seleucus the theologian, and changed the custom into a sacrifice of an ox: and the daemon accepted the ox instead of a man; so little is the difference in value of the performance.

(Eusebius later comments upon this ritual but offers no further historical information).

The account by Walker seems highly imaginative. (Even assuming the acuracy of the sources and ignoring the problem of harmonising them.)

Andrew Criddle

Julian · 05-10-2005, 08:45 AM

The link to Norse mythology is extremely tenuous. I don't see the link between Longinus and Høder, who was a very nice guy, and was tricked into killing Balder by Loke. Archarya S sees link where no one else does and she produces very few references. It is only natural that mythologies created by humans should share some commonality of themes and events.

Julian

yummyfur · 05-10-2005, 09:53 AM

There is also the reference to human sacrifice on Cyprus in general in Ovid's "Metamorphoses", but I don't think it helps Walker's argument.

Quote:

Enquire of Amathus, whose wealthy ground
With veins of every metal does abound,
If she to her Propoetides wou'd show,
The honour Sparta does to him allow?

Nor more, she'd say, such wretches wou'd we grace,
Than those whose crooked horns deform'd their face,
From thence Cerastae call'd, an impious race:
Before whose gates a rev'rend altar stood,
To Jove inscrib'd, the hospitable God:
This had some stranger seen with gore besmear'd,
The blood of lambs, and bulls it had appear'd:
Their slaughter'd guests it was; nor flock nor
herd.

Venus these barb'rous sacrifices view'd
With just abhorrence, and with wrath pursu'd:
At first, to punish such nefarious crimes,
Their towns she meant to leave, her once-lov'd climes:
But why, said she, for their offence shou'd I
My dear delightful plains, and cities fly?

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05-10-2005, 08:45 AM	#13
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	The link to Norse mythology is extremely tenuous. I don't see the link between Longinus and Høder, who was a very nice guy, and was tricked into killing Balder by Loke. Archarya S sees link where no one else does and she produces very few references. It is only natural that mythologies created by humans should share some commonality of themes and events. Julian

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