Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-08-2005, 10:41 PM

A case study in legendary development.

The fourth gospel says that a Roman centurion pierced Jesus' side, and blood and water flowed.

The apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus says

Quote:

7 Then said Annas and Caiaphas: Ye have well said those things which are written in the law of Moses, that no man saw the death of Enoch, and no man hath named the death of Moses. But Jesus spake before Pilate, and we know that we saw him receive buffets and spittings upon his face, and that the soldiers put on him a crown of thorns and that he was scourged and received condemnation from Pilate, and that he was crucified at the place of a skull and two thieves with him, and that they gave him vinegar to drink with gall, and that Longinus the soldier pierced his side with a spear, and that Joseph our honourable father begged his body, and that, as he saith, he rose again, and that (lit. as) the three teachers say: We saw him taken up into heaven, and that Rabbi Levi spake and testified to the things which were spoken by Rabbi Symeon, and that he said: Behold this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel and for a sign spoken against.

The Catholic Encyclopedia says that the Gospel of Nicodemus, a/k/a the Acts of Pilate, dates originally to the 4th century, but was revised later, and

Quote:

The book aimed at gratifying the desire for extra-evangelical details concerning Our Lord, and at the same time, to strengthen faith in the Resurrection of Christ, and at general edification. The writers (for the work we have is a composite) could not have expected their production to be seriously accepted by unbelievers. (See Apocryha, under Pilate Literature.)

From that start, Longinus' story developed more details. He was joined together with the centurion who said "truly, this man was a son of god." From there, it was easy to assume that he became a Christian, since he had witnesses the darkness that covered the land when Jesus died (unlike the rest of the world.)

The story developed that he was blind or had bad eyesight (which you think would disqualify him from service), but that he was miraculously cured when a drop of Jesus' blood hit his eye. He then went off an suffered a gruesome martyrdom.

His lance became a Holy Relic, which Charlemagne claimed to possess, and which fascinated Hitler.

Acharya S claims:

Quote:

Regarding the old spear motif, here's an excerpt from The Christ Conspiracy:

The Spear of Longinus

Longinus was the name of the Roman soldier who stuck Jesus in the side with a spear. Legend held that Longinus was blind and was subsequently cured by Jesus’s blood. Again, this is not a historical event but part of the mythos and sacred king ritual, as Walker relates:

The true prototype of the legend seems to have been the blind god Hod, who slew the Norse savior Balder with the thrust of a spear of mistletoe. . . . March 15, the "Ides of March" when most pagan saviors died, was the day devoted to Hod by the heathens, and later Christianized as the feast day of the Blessed Longinus.

Walker also states:

Up to Hadrian’s time, victims offered to Zeus at Salamis were anointed with sacred ointments—thus becoming "Anointed Ones" or "Christs"—then hung up and stabbed through the side with a spear.

In addition, the Scandinavian god Odin, and the god Marsyas of Mindanao in the Philippines were hung on a "fatal tree" and stabbed with a spear. The Hindu god Vishnu (Bal-ii) was crucified with a spear in his side, bearing the epithet "side-wounded." The gods Wittoba and Adonis were also crucified and "side-wounded" saviors.

Although a myth, many "authentic" "spears of Longinus" have been "found" in the Christian world. Indeed, Hitler purportedly spent a great deal of time, money and energy to track down the "true" spear, believing that it, like so many other "sacred" objects, held occultic powers.

The side-wounding in the mythos is due to the position of the sun near Sagittarius, the archer, also a centaur or centurion.

Wikipedia confirms that Baldur was accidentally killed by his blind brother Hod with an arrow or a lance made out of mistletoe. The storyline seems different - Hod was a god of darkness, Balder of light. I don't see where Hod's blindness was cured by Balder's blood, and I don't see where Balder was a savior god, and of course, Longinus didn't kill Jesus, and Hod seems to have shot an arrow at his brother. But other than that those minor details. . .

Barbar Walker's Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets is searchable on Amazon. The entry for St. Longinus is at p. 549. Walker (who, I understand is not generally considered a reliable source) notes that "Early-medieval missionaries deliberately confused Jesus with Balder. Some even declared the cross of Jesus' crucifiction was made of mistletoe." Her source for claiming that Hod's day became dedicated to Longinus is Brewster, H. Pomeroy. Saints and Festivals of the Christian Church. New York: Frederick A. Stokes Co., 1904, which is not searchable or available online.

Peter Kirby · 05-08-2005, 11:13 PM

Didn't the recent movie Constantine reference this spear, turning up in Mexico?

best,
Peter Kirby

Toto · 05-09-2005, 12:12 AM

Yes it did. That sword got around. I didn't see the movie, but a review says:

Quote:

John Constantine lives among the “half-breeds.�? (FYI: Mastema is the leader of the offspring of fallen angels by human beings.) When defrocked Father Hennessy (Pruitt Taylor Vince, still wiggling his eyes), cannot handle an exorcism, Constantine is called in. He is driven around L.A. by a young cab driver (Shia LaBeouf) who wants to be his assistant. There is a powerful demon loose in L.A. since the sword that pierced Jesus’s side was found by some Mexican peasants. (One such Holy Lance – there are quite a few, used by the Roman soldier Longinus, is in St. Peter’s Basilica, hidden away as is The Veil of Veronica.)

yummyfur · 05-09-2005, 01:57 AM

I've always been intrigued by the Longinus story and parrelels to this story in Josephus.

Quote:

War of the Jews, Book V, Chapter 7
What made the Romans so courageous was their usual custom of conquering and disuse of being defeated, their constant wars, and perpetual warlike exercises, and the grandeur of their dominion; and what was now their chief encouragement -Titus who was present every where with them all; for it appeared a terrible thing to grow weary while Caesar was there, and fought bravely as well as they did, and was himself at once an eye-witness of such as behaved themselves valiantly, and he who was to reward them also. It was, besides, esteemed an advantage at present to have any one's valor known by Caesar; on which account many of them appeared to have more alacrity than strength to answer it. And now, as the Jews were about this time standing in array before the wall, and that in a strong body, and while both parties were throwing their darts at each other, Longinus, one of the equestrian order, leaped out of the army of the Romans, and leaped into the very midst of the army of the Jews; and as they dispersed themselves upon the attack, he slew two of their men of the greatest courage; one of them he struck in his mouth as he was coming to meet him, the other was slain by him by that very dart which he drew out of the body of the other, with which he ran this man through his side as he was running away from him; and when he had done this, he first of all ran out of the midst of his enemies to his own side. So this man signalized himself for his valor, and many there were who were ambitious of gaining the like reputation. And now the Jews were unconcerned at what they suffered themselves from the Romans, and were only solicitous about what mischief they could do them; and death itself seemed a small matter to them, if at the same time they could but kill any one of their enemies. But Titus took care to secure his own soldiers from harm, as well as to have them overcome their enemies. He also said that inconsiderate violence was madness, and that this alone was the true courage that was joined with good conduct. He therefore commanded his men to take care, when they fought their enemies, that they received no harm from them at the same time, and thereby show themselves to be truly valiant men.

It seems to me quite possible that this soldier went back to Italy with the trophy spear he had accounted himself so valiantly with. It's quite possible that he knew the names of the persons he slayed, as Josephus seems to say they were known for their courage, and thus why Longinus's act was considered so daring. All that would be needed to seed a folkloric story, was for one those men to be named Jesus, a not unlikely thing, considering it was a fairly common name at the time. Later local Christians hearing a story about someone famous for slaying a courageus Jew named Jesus, might have decided that it must be their Jesus, and thus the start of the story.

John A. Broussard · 05-09-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yummyfur

I've always been intrigued by the Longinus story and parrelels to this story in Josephus.

I remember an addendum to the legend. Longinus was missing an eye he'd lost in some earlier battle. When he lanced Jesus, some of the blood spilled into his eye socket and the eye immediately grew back. Longinus then converted to Christianity and went happily off to martyrdom.

Is this a late story, or does it go back to some written legend? I'm curious, but not curious enough to go searching for the story's origins.

John A. Broussard · 05-09-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

I remember an addendum to the legend. Longinus was missing an eye he'd lost in some earlier battle. When he lanced Jesus, some of the blood spilled into his eye socket and the eye immediately grew back. Longinus then converted to Christianity and went happily off to martyrdom.

Is this a late story, or does it go back to some written legend? I'm curious, but not curious enough to go searching for the story's origins.

I take it back. I see it's already mentioned in the thread. But I'm still curious about where it came from.

Sarpedon · 05-09-2005, 12:00 PM

yummyfur, I expect that there was more than one roman in that army named "Longinus." and I also expect that if the "Longinus" of that story were "of the equestrian order" he wouldn't have been given the onerous and stinky job of guarding crucified criminals.

yummyfur · 05-09-2005, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

yummyfur, I expect that there was more than one roman in that army named "Longinus." and I also expect that if the "Longinus" of that story were "of the equestrian order" he wouldn't have been given the onerous and stinky job of guarding crucified criminals.

I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying this Longinus was involved in the Christian Jesus's crucifiction. I was merely stating, that this Longinus and his specific acts in the Jewish war(long after Christain Jesus's death), might have been misinterpreted by later Christians as being involved, because they might have heard vague local stories about his exploits and came to self-serving interpretations.

Also the Christian Longinus story, at some point has him as a centurion, which is also an unlikely guard for a convict, but it didn't seem to bother the myth makers.

Toto · 05-09-2005, 01:55 PM

"Longinus" is generally held to be derived from the Greek longche meaning spear. How likely is it that either Josephus or the late Christian mythmaker just picked up that name as something appropriate?

John A. Broussard - Longinus's eye problems (variously blindness, incipient blindness, poor eyesight, blindness in one eye) are the most convincing link with the Norse god Hud, the blind archer who was tricked into shooting a mistletoe arrow into Balder.

John A. Broussard · 05-09-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Longinus's eye problems (variously blindness, incipient blindness, poor eyesight, blindness in one eye) are the most convincing link with the Norse god Hud, the blind archer who was tricked into shooting a mistletoe arrow into Balder.

Now you've piqued my curiosity. If the legend was influenced by Norse legends, surely it must be very late in Christian tradition. 8th, 9th Century maybe?

Or is there some equivlent legend in Gothic lore?

Sounds like a great thesis topic.

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05-08-2005, 11:13 PM	#2
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Didn't the recent movie Constantine reference this spear, turning up in Mexico? best, Peter Kirby

05-09-2005, 12:00 PM	#7
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	yummyfur, I expect that there was more than one roman in that army named "Longinus." and I also expect that if the "Longinus" of that story were "of the equestrian order" he wouldn't have been given the onerous and stinky job of guarding crucified criminals.

05-09-2005, 01:55 PM	#9
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	"Longinus" is generally held to be derived from the Greek longche meaning spear. How likely is it that either Josephus or the late Christian mythmaker just picked up that name as something appropriate? John A. Broussard - Longinus's eye problems (variously blindness, incipient blindness, poor eyesight, blindness in one eye) are the most convincing link with the Norse god Hud, the blind archer who was tricked into shooting a mistletoe arrow into Balder.

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