Agnostic Theist

First, sorry if this has been posted.

Second, in the news there is evidence/rumour that JP II is to be made a saint provided that evidence of a second miracle can be acquired.

Apparently he has committed one miracle, but needs to do another one post-death. This miracle needs to be assessed by scientists such that they are unable to provide a scientific explanation for it.

Does anyone know about this? If so, what was the nature of the alleged miracle and, if it did happen, what alternative explanation could you give?

Spanish_Inquisitor

I don't know the particulars, but it seems that just when I think I've become about as cynical as a human can become, I read this, and my cynicism shoots up another notch.

Wasn't there a rational basis for the old rule that the Church should wait an appropriate length of time before assessing claimed miracles, to allow the fever pitch worship of the recently deceased alleged saint to die down? Doesn't anyone realize that every gullible Catholic who has something "miraculous" happen to him or her will claim that they recently prayed to Pope JPII? Jeez.

No wonder religion and reason don't mix.

SI

Agnostic Theist

I've tried to find out more about this (hence my posting here) but all I know is they decided to bend the rules a little bit.

The only justification of this that I have found is that JP saintified a lot of people

Weltall

Call me cynical but I imagine that they'll either ask questionable scientists (like asking a physicist about something relating to biology for example) or they'll provide so little for the scientists to study that they can't make a fair assessment. Given the current percentage of miracles that have been proven (a nice fat zero) I'm not holding my breath for anything real here. Admittedly I don't know how this process is supposed to go either but I doubt they're really looking for a rigorous examination, especially for someone they really want to be canonized.

Agemegos

Or else they will cook the sample. For example, if a hundred thousand sick people pray at his tomb, and one undergoes a spontaneous remission of his or her illness that will do the trick. Unless that particular cure can be explained in detail it will count as a miracle. Never mind if the prognosis for patients with that profile of illnesses is that 0.1% undergo spontaneous remission even if untreated.

ManM

Yes. I'm personally very disappointed in this move, as it trivializes historical Sainthood.

Jet Black

It's all about marketing, fast delivery and pandering to the populous in order to grab a few more votes. It's like the Domino's Pizza of the religious world "canonisation in six months, or your money back"

moxdevil

It is incredibly cynical of the Church, but they are in the fashion business after all. Pope John Paul II is rather popular right now so why not exploit that popularity. After all members of the church perceive their popularity dropping until there’s a tragedy to get the people to the pews.

As for the scientific assessment, well there are plenty of those Christian Science organisations who’ll offer their services. They are scientists, right?

Thomas II

I think Ratzi should be made a saint too...Saint Ratzi... :devil1:

christ-on-a-stick

Well, to be fair, he did apparently perform ONE miracle... convincing hundreds of thousands of people the world over that he actually had a direct line to the G-man himself. :Cheeky:

More seriously though, hearing about this kind of thing (there was a bit about it on a local news show recently) makes me want to :banghead: at the sheer idiocy of it all.