OneWayTraffic

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. Judges 1:19.

Sorry Magus55 but the bible disagrees with you. A literal reading of this passage shows quite clearly that God can not do everything.

Magus55

Actually, a literal reading of this verse shows that Judah could not drive out the inhabitants. Judah is the "he" referred to here, not God. Judah didn't have enough trust in God to be able to destroy the Chariots.

Here are some examples of God dealing with Chariots:

Jos 11:6 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Be not afraid because of them: for to morrow about this time will I deliver them up all slain before Israel: thou shalt hough their horses, and burn their chariots with fire.

Jos 11:9 And Joshua did unto them as the LORD bade him: he houghed their horses, and burnt their chariots with fire.

Exd 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.


Exd 14:18 And the Egyptians shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh , upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.


God has no problem with Chariots. And considering the same God is described as creating the universe, flooding the Earth, and judging Egypt with 10 plagues, you seriously think a heap of metal is going to stop God? Please, I know you all think its a bunch of crap, but the notion that God can't handle some chariots is absurd. It just goes to show atheists will do anything to disprove God and the Bible.

OneWayTraffic

Fair enough except for one thing. It's a good example of the bible being less than consistent. I would certainly agree that the overall picture of the bible is of a god capable of doing anything he likes but it's interesting to see the odd hint of limits. You see those hints seem to me to be a certain admittance of the reality that there is no absolute power guiding our destiny.

Either the lord was with Judah or he was not. If the lord wanted him to defeat the chariots of iron then certainly he could. So perhaps he was unable or unwilling to help. Why he should be unwilling nobody can give any kind of answer outside of "lacking faith."

The other interpetation is of course that god is mythical and when Judah accomplished something within his mortal abilities he gave credit to this god as we see people do every day. (Thank god I found my keys/got the job/ survived the crash.) This neatly explains why god most commonly helps people do what is already possible and why people who seem to believe in a different deity or no deity at all seem to have no trouble doing what bible believers need gods help for.

Crucifiction

Nowhere does it say Judah lacked enough faith in God to drive out the chariots. If God could drive out chariots in one place, but not another, there's something wrong.

Boy, Christians will do anything to prove God & the Bible.

Chris Weimer

OK, so Judah can't drive out the chariots of iron, but where does he say that he doesn't have enough faith, or that he even needs faith? Why do you shamelessly like to make up things?

Amaleq13

Can you reach this conclusion without first assuming what you are trying to prove (ie omniscience)?

Aeromaxis

Should be relatively easy, using an argument along the following lines:

1. The Bible is a reliable document
2. The Bible claims to be divinely inspired ("All scripture is god-breathed")
3. God is said to be omniscient
4. God, and the divine, cannot lie

Therefore, God is omniscient


P.S. I think Magus is right, the "he" referred to in Judges is Judah, not God; God's omnipotence is unimparied in any way.

Amaleq13

You assume the conclusion in #3.

So, having the Lord "with you" is essentially meaningless?

Tsurmon

Circular logic can prove anything.

If the bible says God wrote it, and God says in the bible that the bible is inffalible, then God MUST have wrote it and it MUST be infallible.

Chris Weimer

1. The Bible must be proved as a reliable document. Argument #1 fails.
2. Though it might be divinely inspired, doesn't mean that human error doesn't occur. That is the essence of inspiration, it is only inspired, not written. Argument #2 fails.
3. The New Testament claims that God is omniscient, while the Old Testament does not. We have a unprovoked change in theology, created by man. It is not reliable at that inspection. Argument #3 is highly debatable.
4. Where does it say that God and the Divine cannot lie? The Garden of Eden story alone is an example of God lieing. When God told them that the fruit will kill them, and they ate it without death, surely God wasn't truthful? Or maybe it was just clever manipulation. To me, tricking someone is as bad as lieing, both are interested in the misinterpretation of events. It's phony. God's a phony. Argument #4 is debatable.

Conclusion: God is not omniscient.