Johnny Skeptic

Yes, the same Jews who have rejected Jesus for the last 2,000 years. At least Jews have enough sense to know that Jesus was not the Son of God.

And there you go again quoting the Bible. Why must you embarrass yourself by quoting the Bible? Inspiring and preserving texts indicates that whoever inspired and preserved them wants people to have access to them. As it was, millions of people died without hearing the Gospel message because God refused to tell them about it. How do you account for that? What we have here is that God wants people to hear the Gospel message, but only if someone else tells them about it. That means that God is more concerned with METHODS than he is with RESULTS. That is a ridiculous and outrageous conclusion, but you have no chioce except to make it.

It is suspicious that the first people who heard the Gospel message lived closer to Palestine. A loving God would never discriminate against people based upon geography.

Do you consider the spread of the Gospel message to be more important than the spread of a cure for cancer? If so, it is too bad that God doesn't.

In my previous post, I said:

You conveniently did not discuss any of that. You have a habit of trying to control everything that gets discuss and avoid discussing anything that you know might embarrass you. Evasiveness is always good evidence for the undecided crowd regarding whose arguments are better.

You said that Israel has been restored. That is patently false. God promised Abraham ALL of the ancient land of Canaan. Today, Jews do not control all of the land of ancient Canaan, and there is not any credible evidence that they ever did. The parts of ancient Canaan that they did control were probably acquired by murdering the Canaanites and stealing their land.

You still have not come up with any sensible reasons why God would want to predict the future. In this thread or in some other thread you made a ridiculous argument that one of the reasons why God predicted the future was to strengthen the faith of Jews. If that is what God wanted to do, he would have told Ezekiel about Alexander. There is little doubt that Nebuchadnezzar's failure to conquer Tyre decreased the faith of Jews, not increased the faith of Jews. If God wanted to strengthen that faith of Jews, why didn't he give them some indisputable messianic prophecies that would have discouraged dissent instead of inviting dissent? If a God inspired the Bible, there was no need for it to encourage as much dissent as it does. No rational person would claim that the Bible could not have been written much more clearly than it was written if a God inspired it.

huff

This is my third post, and I think I could do it no more justice than this.
WOW!

Sheshonq

Wrong. But then again, you don't know anything about historians (ancient or modern), so it's no surprise that you are ignorant on this point.

1. Because island powers can be very hard to conquer - look at Great Britain and Japan.

2. Because sometimes conquerors fail to conquer - everything doesn't always go as planned.

3. Perhaps he had no fleet, but was relying upon starving the island out by destroying the farms on the mainland.

4. Or, perhaps he was planning to build a bridge, but the Tyrian military stoppped him. Do you really think that the Tyrians - who DID have a fleet - were going to sit back, sip their tea, and watch Nebuchadnezzar build a bridge? Without attacking him and his efforts? Imagine trying to build a bridge while Tyrian warships and archers are attacking your every effort to do so.

You are so crippled by your interpretation that even the most obvious flaws in your position slide right by, without you ever seeing them.

Never heard of tribute payments? Oh, that's right - you don't know history, so why would you know about tribute payments?

It was a face-saving measure - "pay me some gold each year, pretend you're under my control, and I won't siege you any more."

Evidence, history, and archaeology. You have nothing but a busted interpretation of your scripture.

sugarhitman

The punishment was that God would not drive out all the nations around Israel and that they would be a thorn in their side as it is this day, meaning they would not get ALL the land promised and they would suffer hostility from the Gentile nations who hates them..... because of disobedience. If you have read Ezekiel you will know that God brings the Jews back not because they deserve it but because God is about to show his glory by defeating the 'king of the north' and the Gentile nations who follow him. I.E. Aremegeddon. The hatred of God has always been the sole reason of persecution of the Jews. The Jews are a hated people by todays world because of mainly one reason....Jesus Christ. "If the world hated Me they will also hate you"...You will be hated by all nations because of Me....Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."---Jesus the Messiah. The Jews are hated by apostates christians because they see the Jews as killing Jesus (which is really a pretense to hate Jews because they themselves hate God). The heathens hate the Jews because Jesus was Jewish... The heathens hate Jesus...because he "testify to the world that its deeds are evil." So God allows Israel to be restored knowing the Gentiles will play out their hatred against Him on Isreal. This will serve to purposes; to judge the nations and punish Israel. "For behold, I began to bring calimity on the city which is called by My name, and should you (Gentiles) be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished, for I will call for a sword (war) on all the inhabitants of the earth...Behold, Disaster shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the farthest parts of the earth.....For the Lord has a controversy with the nations; He will plead His case with ALL flesh. He will give those who are wicked to the sword...And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth."---Jeremiah 25:15-38


"Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own ways and deeds....Therefore I poured out My fury on them for the blood they had shed on the land, and for their idols with which they had defiled it. So I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed throughout the countries; I judged them according to their ways and their deeds. When they came to the nations, wherever they went, they profaned My holy name---when they said of them, 'These are the people of the Lord, and yet they have gone out of His land,' But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations wherever they went......for I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries and bring you into your own land.....I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord....Not for your sakes do I do this, let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.'----Ezekiel 36


"Therefore, son of man prophesy and say to Gog Thus says The Lord God: On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it? Then you will come from your place out of the north parts you and many peoples with you. You will come against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land so that the nations may know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes....Are you he of whom I have spoken in former days by my servents the prophets of Israel, who prophesied for years in those days that I would bring you against them. And it shall come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel that My fury will show up in My face.....I will call for a sword againsi Gog throughout all My holy mountains...You shall fall upon the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you....So I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and will not let them profane My holy name anymore. Then the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel. SURELY IT IS COMING, AND IT SHALL BE DONE...THIS IS THE DAY OF WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN (OF)....The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them....And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the House of Israel," says the Lord God. Ezekiel.


Heres your answer by the Great One Himself. None of us (various nations) deserves anything. Both the Gentiles and Israel will be punished for their sins. Both of them will also see salvation...when both of them accepts He who was crucified for both Gentiles and Jews. :wave:

Jedi Mind Trick

Sugar,
Answer my question above about the holocaust, please.

Johnny Skeptic

What restoration? God promised Abraham and his descendants ALL of the ancient land of Canaan. Today, Jews do not occupy ALL of the ancient land of Canaan, and there is not any credible evidence that they ever did.

And what evidence do you have that God made a land promise to Abraham and his descendants in the first place?

Regarding the partition of Palestine in 1948, anyone who has enough power can conquer and hold territory. What does that prove? The Romans held a lot of terroritory for centuries. Does that mean that they had good character? Of course not. There is not a necessary correlation between power and good character, or didn't you know that?

sugarhitman

He who asks the same questions over and over again after being answered, means he is not looking for an answer....but looking only to find faults.

Johnny Skeptic

Please define what you mean by the word "restoration."

What is admirable about the acquisition of land by force? Are you trying to make a case that "might makes right"?

Sheshonq

Not interested in the preaching.

All I'm interesetd in is your claim that this wasn't a conditional promise, when clearly it appears to be exactly that: conditional.

Not that it matters much; your argument is so bad that this was just the easiest flaw to point out.

Dogfish

Yeah, and you're from Kentucky!!

Just kidding - a little Hoosier humor.