True American

Mythology?
I don't understand.
Are you saying that Moses didn't free his people from Egypt? This is quite well documented.
Are you saying that Jesus never walked the earth? Again, not a myth. FACT.
Maybe you think the story of Noah is crazy too. Yet "SCIENTISTS," which you have all put 100% of your beliefs in, have found Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat.

My point is:
Many stories in the Bible are in fact true. Exactly where is it that we should draw the line?
That's as crazy as saying the entire history of the United States is a Myth and this is all just a really bad dream.

Dean Anderson

There is no evidence that Moses even existed.

On the contrary. The Egyptian documentation we have for the period 1500BCE-1200BCE completely fails to mention over half a million Hebrew slaves. It also fails to mention the exodus, the plagues, the disappearance of the Egyptian army and so on.

The archaeology of the areas of Canaan that were allegedly settled shows quite clearly that there is a homogenaity in pottery and architecture indicating that no conquest took place.

The Exodus story tells how the Hebrews needed to skirt around the land belonging to the King of Edom, but archaeology quite clearly tells us that there was no Kingom of Edom for them to skirt around until at least 900BCE.

During the alleged period of the Exodus, the Egyptians maintained a series of forts and garrisons protecting their trade routes into Assyria. However, the Exodus story claims that the Hebrews wandered that way through empty desert.

Only silly or dishonest literalist apologists still try to claim that the Exodus happened. You should stop listening to them.

Yes. Please provide some actual evidence to support your claim that he did.

Then you will have no trouble providing evidence to support it, will you?

Crazy? No. The story is a well crafted piece of literature (well, two well crafted pieces stitched together, to be exact). There is nothing crazy about it.

Of course, I do think it crazy for people to believe that the story is actually historical truth.

We have lots of geological evidence (which I will go into here because it is deviating far from biblical matters) which demonstrates that there has never been a single global flood like the one described in the Bible during the 4.5+ billion year history of this planet.

Naturally, you appear to think differently. Perhaps you could provide some evidence for this as well, while you are at it.

No they haven't. Please provide evidence that they have (note - you said scientists, so religious crackpots like Wyatt don't count).

Many stories in the Bible are indeed true. Babylonia did indeed conquer Judah and send the people into exile, for example.

Where to draw the line is easy. When the story agrees with the other historical, archaeological, geological, chemical and biological evidence we have for the history of the world then we have no reason to doubt its veracity. Where it disagrees with the above then we do have reason to call the stories "myth".

I've seen the "This Country Was Founded On Christian Principles" history that a lot of Americans spout. It is a myth.

Worldtraveller

This was split of from this thread in CSS.

True American

http://eril.4mg.com/alfar004.html

http://www.geocities.com/7life/Jesusevidence.html

http://neros.lordbalto.com/

Worldtraveller

Do you have anything to say, TA? Or just posting links to see if they work?

True American

I certainly agree with this!

Puritans came here for religious freedom in 1620, and John Smith was in Virginia as far back as 1610. He didn't come here in the name of religion, his quest was to map the coastline of the new world.

We're talking about an era where religion stood for more in people's lives than most political issues, but it certainly wasn't religion that made all the original colonists come here. For the most part, it was for freedom from their governments which they never actually got until 1781 in York Virginia. Of course, they quickly were being led by a new government who still made them pay taxes, so... round & round we go.

True American

I was asked 3 times to show proof...

These are links for reading. Supposedly SCIENTIFIC links.

They aren't from World Encyclopedia or Harvard archives, but they certainly shed light on the fact that there is a just reason to believe Jesus, Moses and Noah's Ark exist.

Diogenes the Cynic

It's not documented at all. As a matter of fact, all of the archaeological and historical evidence that we have mitigates quite dispositively against the Exodus fable. The Israelites were never even enslaved in Egypt in the first place. There was no Moses, no wandering of 2 million people in the Sinai, no mass immigration into Canaan and no conquest of Canaan. None of it happened. The whole thing is made up. The archaeology shows that the Israelites were simply a local Canaanite tribe who never left, never conquered anything and eventually (around the 7th century BCE) managed to consolidate some political power in Judea. Most of the "history" recorded in the Hebrew Bible was political propaganda. It was fiction. It wasn't just the Exodus that was made up either. The whole thing about a unified kingdom of David and Solomon is fiction as well. There never was such a kingdom. The debate in Israeli archaeology these days is about whether David and Solomon are completely mythical characters (like Moses and Noah and like the patriarchs) or whether they were local chieftains with exaggerated legends.

We've had a number of threads about these matters and I assure you we can debunk these stories in great detail if you wish. For now I'll just give you the obligatory link to The Bible Unearthed, written by two Israeli archaeologists (and they're REAL archaeologists, not fake ones like Wyatt. One of the authors, Israel Finkelstein, is the Chair of the archaeological department at Tel-Aviv University). This book will give you the scoop on what the actual evidence is regarding these stories. It ain't pretty if you're a Biblical literalist.
This one we can file under "undetermined." It certainly cannot be confirmed as indisputable fact that a historical Jesus existed but it hasn't yet been definitively ruled out either. Of course, even if the Jesus myth was based on some core historical figure, that doesn't mean that any of the supernatural aspects of the story are true and virtually everything in the Gospel accounts can be demonstrated to be fiction.
Um...no...scientists have found no such thing. Moreover, they have conclusively proven that there was never a global flood. Not only that, but we also know that the Noah story is a variation on a much earlier Sumerian flood myth.
Very little in the Bible is verifiably true and much of it is provably ahistorical. Where we should "draw the line" is exactly where the evidence tells us to draw the line. The creation myth from Genesis, for instance, is not a haistorically or scientifically accurate description of the origin of the earth or of the origin of humans. It is therefore irresponsible for public institutions such as schools, zoos or museums to even suggest that "Creation Science" or ID have any scientific validity whatsoever or that they are genuine competing "theories" to evolution.
Hardly. The evidence for US history is plentiful and well preserved. The evidence for the historicity of the Bible is not only mostly non-existent, large portions of the Bible have actually been proven not to be historical. There's no comparison at all.

gravitybow

What else would links be for? Supposedly? Oh, Lordy...
versus the original:
Funny, I couldn't find any "SCIENTISTS" or "SCIENCE" in the Ark link you provided.

What size did you say your tap dancing shoes were?

Julian

There is nothing scientfic about your links. They are the same tired, disproven nonsensical claims. I suggest that you start by reading 'The Bible Unearthed,' by some real scientists.

You have been terribly mislead by people with an agenda. Read Pervy's post again. Everything he writes has been thouroughly backed up by science. Exodus and the flood are myths. Possibly Jesus is as well but that is much less certain.

Julian