Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DoubtingDave · 09-20-2012, 06:50 AM

Quote:

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of scripture: "Jesus said to them, 'My wife …'"

The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”

The finding is being made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by the historian Karen L. King, who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49075679#.UFsdx7KPXTp

I posted a blog about this here: http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com/2...m-my-wife.html and I want your thoughts on this incredible find. Is this a Gnostic forgery or could this possibly be legitament?

sotto voce · 09-20-2012, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockOfAtheism

Quote:

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of scripture: "Jesus said to them, 'My wife …'"

The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”

The finding is being made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by the historian Karen L. King, who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49075679#.UFsdx7KPXTp

I posted a blog about this here: http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com/2...m-my-wife.html and I want your thoughts on this incredible find. Is this a Gnostic forgery or could this possibly be legitament?

This could mean that Jesus had a wife. But, it could be spurious, like an abundance of other stuff that is plainly apocryphal, deliberate mischief; though it may be constructive apocrypha, also. It could be a reference to the church, 'the Bride of Christ' (Rv 19:7). It could be reference to those who obey Jesus as his 'spouse', akin to similar comments in the gospels. That would harmonise with the comment about ability to be a disciple. So really, the only interest (for skepticism, anyway) is the age and physical condition of the papyrus!

sotto voce · 09-20-2012, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockOfAtheism

Quote:

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of scripture: "Jesus said to them, 'My wife …'"

The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”

The finding is being made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by the historian Karen L. King, who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49075679#.UFsdx7KPXTp

I posted a blog about this here: http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com/2...m-my-wife.html and I want your thoughts on this incredible find. Is this a Gnostic forgery or could this possibly be legitament?

It's also noticeable that 'to' has been replaced with 'unto'. Shock of what?

DoubtingDave · 09-20-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockOfAtheism

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49075679#.UFsdx7KPXTp

I posted a blog about this here: http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com/2...m-my-wife.html and I want your thoughts on this incredible find. Is this a Gnostic forgery or could this possibly be legitament?

It's also noticeable that 'to' has been replaced with 'unto'. Shock of what?

OOPS, typo I made. Either way, the effect is the same.

Mageth · 09-20-2012, 07:52 AM

Already a thread on this:

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=318733

sotto voce · 09-20-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockOfAtheism

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockOfAtheism

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49075679#.UFsdx7KPXTp

I posted a blog about this here: http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com/2...m-my-wife.html and I want your thoughts on this incredible find. Is this a Gnostic forgery or could this possibly be legitament?

It's also noticeable that 'to' has been replaced with 'unto'. Shock of what?

OOPS, typo I made. Either way, the effect is the same.

Not true.

Toto · 09-20-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockOfAtheism

Quote:

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of scripture: "Jesus said to them, 'My wife …'"

The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”

The finding is being made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by the historian Karen L. King, who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49075679#.UFsdx7KPXTp

I posted a blog about this here: http://reasonalliance.blogspot.com/2...m-my-wife.html and I want your thoughts on this incredible find. Is this a Gnostic forgery or could this possibly be legitament?

Hello Shock - as noted, there is already a long detailed thread on this. It could be a modern forgery - expert opinion is divided.

I don't know what you mean by "Gnostic forgery." The so-called gnostics were a variant of early Christianity who lost out in the struggle with what became orthodox Christianity. But their gospels cannot be regarded as forged.

If this is a genuine scrap from a 4th century manuscript, it is not really astounding or incredible. We know that there was an early Christian sect, the Valentinians, who thought that Jesus was married, and there are other indications that some early Christians thought that Mary Magdalene was a disciple.

sotto voce · 09-20-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

We know that there was an early Christian sect, the Valentinians

No, we don't. There were many who liked people to think they were Christians, then, as now. And there are many today who want them to be thought Christians.

SkyGuy · 09-20-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

We know that there was an early Christian sect, the Valentinians

No, we don't. There were many who liked people to think they were Christians, then, as now. And there are many today who want them to be thought Christians.

Lemme guess....They aren't christians if you don't agree with them.

sotto voce · 09-20-2012, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

We know that there was an early Christian sect, the Valentinians

No, we don't. There were many who liked people to think they were Christians, then, as now. And there are many today who want them to be thought Christians.

Lemme guess....They aren't christians if you don't agree with them.

That's no guess, is it.

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09-20-2012, 07:52 AM	#5
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Already a thread on this: http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=318733

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