Johnny Skeptic

What things? I find the claim that a global flood occured difficult to believe? Do you? I find the claim that the Ten Plagues occured in Egypt difficult to believe. Do you? I find the claim that the earth is young difficult to believe. Do you? I find the claim that the Bible is inerrant difficult to believe. Do you?

What, if anything about Old Testament slavery suggests to you that the God of the Bible exists?

sschlichter

Science is great. However, it has not provided any such thing. Science has given us the ability to wage wars without leaving our living room and kill entire cities with a bomb in a suticase. Man is the problem, science can be used for good or evil just like a baseball bat can.

yet, you can judge what is abuse in other cultures?

I would not if I were you. However, I would study the law. You may find the underlying principle in it and be able to apply that.
You should also consider the difference between a profligate and a son that backtalks. If your son is out driving drunk every night and running a meth lab and will not stop and their is no prison, no other form of rehabilitation, and he is going to kill someone I would consider selling him into slavery where he will learn how to stay dry and work for a living. If he learns his lesson, he can buy himself out of slavery and thank you for loving him enough to deal with his problem severely.

If that does not work, then look into stoning.

sschlichter

yes, no, yes, no

The difference in the slave laws between Mosaic law and the surrounding cultures. Slaves in other cultures were property. Slaves in Mosiac law were still property but the author of the law understood that they have souls as well.

sweetpea7

This is obviously false. Science has provided all kinds of medical treatments as well as things like sanitation for just a couple of examples. Can the bible say the same?

Irrelevant. My point is that science has provided more tangible benefits than god or the bible. This does not address that point in any way.
And just like religion can.

Yep, sure can.

I'm confused. Why wouldn't you want to exactly follow the prescription laid down by a holy, compassionate, and unchanging god? Why would I have to study it or apply an underlying principle? Why not just do as god says? Can god not state his wishes clearly?
Come now...surely an all powerful, loving, unchanging god would have forms of rehabilitation other than slavery or even prison. Humans have developed therapy and AA. Can't god do better?

Great example of abhorrent OT morality and why in reality it is repugnant.

sschlichter

you are comparing apples and oranges. they are not antithesis. Rakes are a good thing but you can also gouge an eye out with them. What makes you think God is an antithesis of science?

The Bible, as the historical account of Gods plan of redemption for man, can of course claim to be of more use than science. Science can only make your heart beat longer. It cannot change your heart and reconcile you with God.

every weapon developed is the fruit of science. Science is a tool. It only provides answers to how to, it is silent on whether to, should we, etc.

yes, even worse.

because the verdict is in. The law is holy and just and we are not. I have already broken every law. I will not and cannot fulfill it. that is it's purpose - to reveal sin. to shine a light on the hearts of men. It is through the law that sin sprang to life. Christ fulfilled the law. Now I am released from the law and free to live in the Spirit of God and not under written code. The law was a nanny until Christ arrived.

AA? You mean where you acknowledge God as the source of your strength and say the Lords prayer, serenity prayer, etc. you haven't been to a meeting lately have you?

ah, great example of man's morality. Letting your son run a meth lab, drive drunk all over town, destroying the lives of others without repercussions. The underlying principle of the law applies even today. It is universal. This type of son should be dealt with harshly before he kills someone else and destroys many lives.

(for others viewing the post) this is only a rhetorical situation - not true of sweetpeas actual son.

Zenaphobe

But also at issue is the fact you want me to worship an omni-God who seems to lack the foresight that people like myself would doubt his message because he chose to embed it in what appears to be a work of superstitious Bronze age minds.

As far as his concern with the affairs of "lost men", do you believe it is necessary for salvation in all times and places to accept Jesus as he is described in the writings of the New Testament? If Yahweh is so concerned with saving men, why use imperfect human means to accomplish it?


Or, why not remain agnostic about what we don't know? Why invoke God to fill the gaps? And why invoke Yahweh in particular? A deists explanation does not compound the issue with the need for miraculous answers for issue after issue.

Can you honestly say that you can think of no better way Yahweh could have let humanity know his plan to save them than the one you are expecting me to accept?

I could lay out several ways that use miracles in a much more economic way than that described in the Bible. Couldn't you?

sugarhitman

or how about an explosion that creates, that some how put everything in nice neat order? And then fishes turn into frogs, frogs into rats, rats into monkeys and presto! man! The biggest miracle of all time.




Nice shirt, but stay away from rock music.....that stuff can dull you intellectually (and morally as well)

sweetpea7

I never said this or implied it.

This is your belief based only upon faith.

Yes, and I never claimed otherwise. It is still true that science has provided more tangible benefits to humanity than the bible.

Who was the judge or jury who delivered this verdict? I want to file an appeal!

Great plan! People should have only stoned their sons for backtalking their parents until Jesus died on the cross. OK, but I thought that god's law is unchanging?

Actually, I have worked as a Sign Language Interpreter for numerous NA/AA meetings. They are always very careful to refer only to a "higher power as each individual understands that concept". AA attendees could be praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

You mean like the idea of human rights?

When did I ever say without repercussions?

Why should he have to be dealt with harshly and what do you mean by that? Selling him into slavery or stoning him? Sick. Even our set of human laws, at least in my area, would attempt to stop this dangerous behavior while also attempting to help the person performing it. For example, the person may receive probation with many restrictions on their behavior and be court ordered into drug treatment. Also, there is a limit as to how harsh a punishment for a crime can be (e.g. the 8th amendment). Wouldn't god do a better job than us lowly humans?

Exciter

You are the one equating slavery to your military experience, but yes forcing people into the military is immoral, because it is involuntary.



Yes, partly. Why do you hit people?
Not the same. You really need to stop and think about it.


Yes.
Why? Is this another of your pathetic attempts at trying to put something down you obviously don't understand, like you tried with asking about my father?

Exciter

Except the only people who say that about the big bang and evolution are people like you sugarhitman, people who don't know what they are squaking about.

You seem to think everybody is equally as uneducated as you are, Lol.

You are a slave to some stupid job, but that's because you are a slave to ignorance. This posts shows that.



Another clueless observation by mister no hit wonder himself, lol.