rhutchin

They take the position that Isaiah 53 refers to Israel. So now, you have two positions and can choose to believe either one or to reject both.

Johnny Skeptic

You said:

How is a global flood a reasonable possibility? How is the claim not speculative? A global flood violates the second law of thermodynamics, the law of gravity, and the well-established science of hydrodynamic sorting. You have abandoned common sense, logic, and reason, and yet you once said that no one should abandon common sense, logic, and reason.

How is inerrancy a reasonable possibility? How is the claim not speculative? Inerrancy is nothing more than an appeal to emotions. Inerrantists wanted God to act like they want him to act, so they dreamed up inerrancy, and yet they accuse skeptics of wanting God to act like they want him to act. If, as many Christians claim, God is not obligated to save anyone, he certainly is not obligated to provide Christians with inerrant texts. Such being the case, why do inerrantists believe that the Bible is inerrant? The correct answer is, because inerrancy satisfies their emotional need to have God act like they want him to act.

Consider the following claims:

1 - The God of the Bible created the heavens and the earth.

2 - Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

3 - Jesus was born of a virgin.

4 - Jesus never sinned.

5 - Jesus' shed blood and death atoned for the sins of mankind.

Now would you like to claim that those claims are not speculative? Obviously, you are guilty of the same thing that you accuse skeptics of. You really do need to tell us why the Bible is not speculative, and why is it not reasonable for skeptics to propose alternative speculations to the Bible's speculations.

How many firsthand, eyewitness accounts in Matthew, Mark, and Luke can you post, several, any at all? Well, er, uh....... Perhaps you are not familiar enough with the Gospels to correctly answer the question.

I am going to start a new thread at the General Religious Discussions Forum. The title will be "A fundie says 'Speculation proves nothing and never will.'" I am pretty sure that you do not have enough confidence to debate that claim at the General Religious Discussions Forum, but I wish to show readers at that forum how ridiculous your statement is.

Edit: The link to the new thread at the General Religious Discussion Forum is http://www.freeratio.org/showthread....55#post5725755. It is a good bet that you will not be willing to make posts in that thread.

Johnny Skeptic

Yes, two positions, your position, and a better position. Your sources made all kinds of speculative, uncorroborated guesses. You do not have a clue whether or not your sources claims are true. You simply accepted them by faith.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to rhutchin: Why do you suppose that God sent the Magi to Herod instead of directly to Bethlehem? If the Magi had gone directly to Bethlehem, Herod would not have killed lots of children.

A better explanation is that Matthew dreamed up the story of the Magi in order to "fulfill" Micah 5:2. The story of the Magi is nothing more than idle speculation and guesswork.

Sheshbazzar

So gawd could have a convenient excuse to be the cause a lot of dead Hebrew infants? :huh:

rhutchin

Don't know of anything in the Bible that tells us. Perhaps God was preparing Herod for judgment even as He is preparing you for judgment. Herod was placed in a situation where he had to make a decision whether to serve God or serve himself. He judged that he should serve himself.

Another explanation. Another opinion.

rhutchin

Yes, by faith. I like that. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Johnny Skeptic

Yes, including your speculative, uncorroborated opinions, and the speculative, uncorroborated opinions of the Bible writers. Perhaps you are proposing that the Bible is factual, and that everything else is opinions.

Whatever you say, I will always have a reply, and my life span is at least another 15 years. You and I have exchanged hundreds of posts over the last several years. I look forward to exchanging hundreds more posts with you on dozens of topics.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to rhutchin: Since you are interested in the global flood, please visit my thread at http://www.freeratio.org//showthread.php?t=259291 at the Evolution/Creation Forum. The title is "The global flood and the 2nd law of thermodynamics."

rhutchin

For everything I say, you certainly have an opinion. Do you have more to offer than personal opinions?