Freethought & Rationalism Archive

angelo · 02-13-2008, 03:26 AM

The English claim to be a lost tribe. The Americans also claim to be a lost tribe through mormonism. Indians, JWs, Ethiopians and many more. So which are the authentic lost tribes?
My opinion? NONE.

arnoldo · 02-13-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

The English claim to be a lost tribe. The Americans also claim to be a lost tribe through mormonism. Indians, JWs, Ethiopians and many more. So which are the authentic lost tribes?
My opinion? NONE.

Umm, a simple DNA test could solve that issue.

Here is a source: Dr. Karl Skorecki

paarsurrey · 02-13-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

The English claim to be a lost tribe. The Americans also claim to be a lost tribe through mormonism. Indians, JWs, Ethiopians and many more. So which are the authentic lost tribes?
My opinion? NONE.

Umm, a simple DNA test could solve that issue.

Here is a source: Dr. Karl Skorecki

Hi

Yes, I agree with you.
One may access the following for more information on this aspect.

http://www.asianage.com/
Srinagar, June 11: The hypothesis that Jesus Christ is buried in a central Srinagar locality has aroused a lot of interest among historiographers, researchers, scholars, archaeologists and religious groups both in India and worldwide once again.

A team of German researchers, including two archaeologists, is planning to visit Srinagar later this year to investigate the subject. Within India, the Janata Party has set up a group of experts from among its members whic Kashmir’s summer capital soon to start research work. The party’s president, Dr Subramanian Swamy, who was in Srinagar last week, said that after reading a booklet by a German he has a "feeling of curiosity" about Jesus Christ and Moses having visited Kashmir and in the belief that both had died and are buried in the Valley.

Thanks

Toto · 02-14-2008, 12:18 AM

I am not sure what sort of evidence they would be looking for - how would they know that it was the tomb of Jesus?

An extended version of the story is here. It appears that not only Jesus, but Moses (?!?) is claimed to be buried in Kashmir.

Quote:

Muslims in Kashmir and elsewhere revere both Jesus and Moses as “noble prophets“ of “Bani Israel“ (Children of Israel), as the Quran makes a number of references to them. Dr Swamy also pointed to the belief of many Kashmiris that they were one of the “Lost Tribes” of Israel. “It is a matter of great interest that Prophet Moses is buried in Kashmir and that Jesus too had visited the Vale, went to Ladakh to visit the Hemis monastery where he took Buddhism as his faith, returned home but left it again for Kashmir to escape persecution, and died here in Srinagar,” he said. The Janata Party leader said that the team he has set up would do methodical research on the subject and come out with its findings “which everybody in the country would be interested in.”

. . .

more on lost tribes

Tomb of Jesus

Jesus in India thread from 2004

This is all quite improbable, of course.

angelo · 02-14-2008, 12:42 AM

What I find intriguing about this DNA testing is that if you go back enough, cro-magnon man will have the same DNA [ almost] as modern man. I don't doubt that some Indian people have the same DNA as middle eastern people. Civilization began in the middle east around modern day Iraq. That people spread to India and beyond is only natural, as people always look for a better existence elsewhere. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

paarsurrey · 02-22-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCHindley

I believe that this refers to the idea that Saul fell in love with the High Priest's daughter, converted to Judaism in order to marry her, and perscuted the heretic Christians to win the High Priest's favor. Saul was thwarted by the fact that a proselyte was prohibited from marrying a High Priest's daughter. Because of that Saul went on a rampage against Judaism by fostering the Jewish heresy of the Christians under the name Paul.

This version of things was supposedly advocated by the Ebionites, according to bishop Epiphanius. It was populaized by the late Hyam Maccoby in his book _The Mythmaker_.

DCH

Hi

Could you please provide the reference of the above narrative, Name of the Book, its page number?

Thanks

angelo · 02-22-2008, 11:58 PM

Paul also said, 'if there is no life after death, and if Jeebus has not risen from the grave, then our faith is in vain''.
This may be out of topic to a degree.
But a lot of Jews did not believe in an immediate life after death. They believed all would rise in the end of the world. It's one of the reasons gentiles were targeted to the fledgling religion.

Toto · 02-23-2008, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCHindley

I believe that this refers to the idea that Saul fell in love with the High Priest's daughter, converted to Judaism in order to marry her, and perscuted the heretic Christians to win the High Priest's favor. Saul was thwarted by the fact that a proselyte was prohibited from marrying a High Priest's daughter. Because of that Saul went on a rampage against Judaism by fostering the Jewish heresy of the Christians under the name Paul.

This version of things was supposedly advocated by the Ebionites, according to bishop Epiphanius. It was populaized by the late Hyam Maccoby in his book _The Mythmaker_.

DCH

Hi

Could you please provide the reference of the above narrative, Name of the Book, its page number?

Thanks

The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity By Hyam Maccoby

Google Books - search for Ebionites

paarsurrey · 02-23-2008, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Hi

Could you please provide the reference of the above narrative, Name of the Book, its page number?

Thanks

The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity By Hyam Maccoby

Google Books - search for Ebionites

Hi

Thank you for the book name, I went through the previewable contents, since pages are missing from it, I could no locate the desired page/passage. If possible, kindly give the page number, and copy/paste the passage. I need it.

Thanks

Toto · 02-23-2008, 11:24 AM

I can't copy and paste from google books, but Maccoby is just quoting Epiphanius. This is from another web site paraphrasing Maccoby:

Quote:

Epiphaneus tells us that the Ebionites further said of Paul:
"'They declare that he was a Greek . .. He went up to Jerusalem, they say, and when he had spent some time there, he was seized with a passion to marry the daughter of the priest. For this reason he became a proselyte and was circumcised. Then, when he failed to get the girl, he flew into a rage and wrote against circumcision and against the sabbath and the Law' (Epiphanius, Panarion, 30.16.6-9).

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02-13-2008, 03:26 AM	#31
angelo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 5,706	The English claim to be a lost tribe. The Americans also claim to be a lost tribe through mormonism. Indians, JWs, Ethiopians and many more. So which are the authentic lost tribes? My opinion? NONE.

02-14-2008, 12:42 AM	#35
angelo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 5,706	What I find intriguing about this DNA testing is that if you go back enough, cro-magnon man will have the same DNA [ almost] as modern man. I don't doubt that some Indian people have the same DNA as middle eastern people. Civilization began in the middle east around modern day Iraq. That people spread to India and beyond is only natural, as people always look for a better existence elsewhere. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

02-22-2008, 11:58 PM	#37
angelo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 5,706	Paul also said, 'if there is no life after death, and if Jeebus has not risen from the grave, then our faith is in vain''. This may be out of topic to a degree. But a lot of Jews did not believe in an immediate life after death. They believed all would rise in the end of the world. It's one of the reasons gentiles were targeted to the fledgling religion.

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