Memebrain

Mark 7: 24-30.

Was Jesus a racist for referring to Gentiles as dogs and is he an idiot for being outwitted by a "dog" :huh:.

:devil1:

Darklighter

I would have to say that that would not be a fair characterization of the Jesus figure, although his teachings are certainly not as "perfect" and "revolutionary" (let alone original) as sanctimonious Christians would present him. But Jesus actually went against the social norms in speaking to the Samaritan woman at the well. That in itself was a very abnormal display of acceptance and non-bigotry for the Jewish culture at the time.

Memebrain

Hmmm yes.

It couldn't be a contradiction could it? This is the infallible word of God we're talking about.

Darklighter

Well, Biblically yeah, that would be a contradiction considering the violent xenophobic nature of the OT God. But you asked about Jesus specifically. There are certainly some bigoted (although not necesserily racist) passages later in the NT, but it's pretty hard to put that specific label on Jesus himself.

Memebrain

I meant Jesus isn't being consistent calling Gentiles dogs in one story and then acting kind to the Samaritan in another story. He also tells people to love their enemies in some passages while condemning his enemies to Hell in others.

ApostateAbe

Mark 7:24-30 (New International Version)

The Faith of a Syrophoenician Woman
24Jesus left that place and went to the vicinity of Tyre.[a] He entered a house and did not want anyone to know it; yet he could not keep his presence secret. 25In fact, as soon as she heard about him, a woman whose little daughter was possessed by an evil[b] spirit came and fell at his feet. 26The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.

27"First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

28"Yes, Lord," she replied, "but even the dogs under the table eat the children's crumbs."

29Then he told her, "For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter."

30She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

Almost everyone in Jesus' culture was equally racist/ethnocentric, so it is sort of useless to judge someone in a different culture by the moral standards of our own time and place. Or else Abraham Lincoln was also racist SOB.

GenesisNemesis

I don't think calling Jesus an racist idiot based on one passage in the Bible is fair. But it is strange that he would go out of character like that.

ApostateAbe

I wouldn't say it is out of character. It is an early passage that very likely reflects who Jesus really was. That is, a typical Jew in many respects.

Darklighter

Ok, I see what you're saying, and those are certainly valid points. He also said to call no one a fool but then proceeds to call people fools. But still, while it was certainly an "insensitive" way of phrasing things, from Jesus' perspective he was sent first and foremost to minister to the Jews (God's "chosen" people), and only secondly to the people of the other nations. You are absolutely correct, consistency is not the Bible's strong suit, but I would still maintain that calling the Jesus character a racist is a tough case to make.

I think the example highlites the stronger point of the absurdity of the creator of the universe arbitrarily "choosing" one obscure ethnic group over another. If he really wants mankind to worship him, then why did he not reveal himself in the same manner to all peoples? Why play this petty favorites game? He chose the Jews over the Egyptians in the same way that an 8-year-old chooses his G.I. Joes over his Matchbox cars.

The example is a symptom of Yahweh making the transition from local tribal God to God of all mankind.

nickpecoraro

Concerning the incident with Jesus being alone with the Samaritan woman at the well. It would seem to me to be a sin to be alone and speak to a strange woman at mid day when there wouldn't be any other people coming to the well. If you remember Joseph and Potifer's wife, they were alone when she tried to seduce him and then she accused him of rape when he wouldn't have sex with her. The Rabbis expanded on the incident involving Joseph in Genesis to create rules of conduct with strange women.
This well meeting with the Samaritan woman smells like a fabrication by a Gentile who was not aware of Jewish customs involving conduct with strange women.

[I got your point Darklighter and I elaborated on your good comment. I hope you don't mind]

nick pecoraro