Achwienichtig

This is a debate between ShockofAtheism and Godless Raven

ShockofAtheism is taking the position that Obama's first term has not been successful.

Godless Raven is taking the position that Obama's first term has been successful.

Scope: Success is defined broadly and includes, but is not limited to, topics such as: Has Obama fulfilled his 2008 campaign promises? Has he risen to meet the challenges of the past four years? Have the policies enacted under his administration had positive or negative effects both in our country and abroad? etc.


There will be Seven rounds rounds in addition to the opening and closing statements. Every round will center on a different subtopic.

Week 1: Opening Statements

Week 2: The Economy Over All

Week 3: The Economy Jobs

Week 4: The Economy Debt/deficit

Week 5: Social Issues

Week 6: Energy/The Environment

Week 7: Foreign Policy

Week 8: National Security

Week 9: Closing arguments

Each participant will submit an independent entry each week. Entries are limited to 2,500 words, excepting the closing arguments, which are limited to 5,000 words.

Each week ShockofAtheism will post his entry on Friday, and Godless Raven will post his entry on Saturday.

There will be no rebuttals during the debate. Participants may only address each other's arguments during the closing arguments. This is to make sure no dead horses are beaten.

Please make sure not to post your entries ahead of schedule, and let me and the other participant know if you will be late with posting.

Opening arguments are scheduled for this weekend. ShockofAtheism will post on Aug. 31st and Godless Raven on Sep. 1st.

The peanut gallery is now open.

DoubtingDave

I would like to thank Godless Raven for accepting this challenge and FRDB for providing this superb platform to debate this topic with. Given the fact that we are so far apart on the political spectrum, I foresee an excellent debate.

What I would like to do in my opening statements is make a brief summary of my entire case. This means that I will be giving the abstracts for my case and when I post the actual argument for that category, I will explain in much more depth.




Barack Obama is the worst President in modern times because he had endangered the economic viability of the nation. His economic policies have cost us trillions of dollars in debt and lost untold number of jobs since he first took office.


Since taking office, the deficit has increased at an alarming rate and the debt is more than 15 trillion dollars and counting.





Obama failed to remove all abortion funding restrictions from his budget submission to Congress but eliminated direct funding for ineffective abstinence - only - until - marriage programs, created the evidence-based Teen Pregnacy Prevention Initiative. [1] As most of us know by now, absinence-only education does not work.


Although Barack Obama gave his support for gay rights (I am gay), I do not believe he has gone far enough. Obama had a fillibuster proof congress did very little to advance the rights of LGBT couples.


Obama expanded the federal government's faith-based programs, a clear violation of church and state separation; and failed to make any changes including addressing the issue of whether faith-based grantees can hire and fire individuals based soely upon religion.[2]


Approving the Keystone XL Pipeline should have been an easy approval for Obama. We can easily be self-sufficient in oil -- and the Keystone XL Pipeline would have made it much easier. Moreover, it wold have created many new jobs and would not have seriously hurt the environment.


President Obama's foreign policy is one of the worst in modern times. Only George W. Bush's policy is worse.According to the PEW research, the world on average has had decreased positive view on the US continuously over Obama's past years in office. This comes even in areas which usually have favorable opinions of the US such as Israel, Kenya, and India. [3]


Thank you and I look forward to your opening statements.


[HR][/HR]

1. http://www.aclulibertywatch.org/candidates/barack-obama

2. Ibid

3. http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/06/13/...icies-faulted/

Godless Raven

Opening Statement

I would like to thank my opponent ShockOfAtheism for proposing the challenge for this debate, FRDB for hosting the debate and Moderator Achwienichtig for referring the event. I appreciate this opportunity and look forward to a mutually respectful exchange of ideas and views of President Barack Obama.

My Position for this debate:

44th President of the United States Barack Obama has been and is a successful President of the United States

Definitions:

Successful -Meaning having a positive effect on integral aspects of public policy, the lives of the citizens he represents and/or the lives of persons outside of the borders of the United States.
By Success I will be comparing Obama to other Presidents in modern history, the climate of the world when they took office and any mitigating factors or interference that caused their policies to fail in comparison with Barack’s.

I will be comparing his campaign pledges to his actions in office. It will also cover campaign pledge changes that were based on conditions out of Obama’s control and how he adapted to those changes.

I will argue that it’s possible bringing the subject to public dialogue and debate can be a success even when the policy itself cannot be made, again for some times for reasons out of Obama’s control.

My basic arguments and stance:

President Barrack Obama has served the American people exceptionally since taking office on January 20th, 2009.

The economy spiraling in to a Recession, the Auto and Banking Industries on the verge of collapse, a tarnished international reputation, the bastardization of Science in the United States, an opposition pre-determined to sink any legislation he might try pass and two Wars of Aggression that Obama inherited from the moment he took office that would have challenged any President in the history of the Great Republic.

Over this debate I will make the case for Obama’s success in comparison to modern contemporaries and the economic and national security issues presented to them and their response.

I will point out cases where he tried to put legislation through congress and the senate and the unprecedented opposition he has faced from his political opponents.

My case will be that he is “successful” based on what he has accomplished, what he has set out as goals for the near future, how his policies have impacted the USA, North America and the rest of the World and the predictions for his policy impact in the future.

I intend to prove my position, and also, based on evidence I will support with citations, that Obama has not only succeeded as President, but that when one considers the inherited conditions previously mentioned, he may be one of the greatest presidents in US history.

For now, let’s focus on “successful”, which is after all the goal of my side of the debate.

The Opposition:

My opponent here, ShockOfAtheism will, I presume, be attempting to propose Obama was unsuccessful because he could not make the impossible happen. That most of his case will be based on the assertion that Obama made promises that he either had no intentions of keeping or was too incompetent to keep.

In my closing arguments, I will address some of these assertions and others he proposes. As per our agreed upon rules, I will not counter any of my opponents positions until our closing arguments.

The Debate:

During the course of this debate we will be covering a wide range of topics from the nuances of the economy, the environment, social programs, national security and other intangibles.

I will be arguing that with what he has been given, Obama has taken the immense challenges he received and responded like a great leader and successful president.

Topics from saving the meltdown of the Auto Industry, to penalizing white collar criminals with FBI investigations will be looked at. We will be discuss the promise he made to the American people back in 2009 that if he were elected he would ensure the capture or kill of #1 enemy of the United States and mass murderer Osama bin Laden. I will argue that he was able to do the impossible and pass health care reform regardless of the hysterical antics of the opposition and the attempt to paint him as un-American or that his policies would create “death panels” designed to murder seniors.

I will argue that thousands of children from low income families had increased funding to ensure they were not failing in school due to missing the basic necessities of life like breakfast thanks to Obama.

We will also be covering the amount of legislation that President Obama has reversed or revised and the affects the original policies had compared to Obama’s improvements.

With our topics ranging from the economy to energy and national security I will have the opportunity to discuss Obama’s health care plan, how his policies have affected the poor, middle class and most wealthy of Americans as well as the outlook for the future based on his policies, as not every policy change has its full fruition within one to four years.

Next Week:

Our first topic next week will be the Economy Over All which will be followed by two more exchanges about the economy.

During these exchanges, I look forward to discussing the Recovery Act, the Stimulus package, Obama’s increased funding to Minorities for Business Capital, the Credit Card Bill of Rights, Tax Cuts to Small Business Owners, signing the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, financial reform law prohibiting banks from engaging in proprietary trading to name but a few examples.

Thank you again to ShockOfAtheism, FRDB, Moderator Achwienichtig and to anyone who finds interest in this debate.

I look forward to reading your comments and feedback in the Peanut Gallery.

Bryce
Godless Raven

Achwienichtig

:blank:

DoubtingDave

Barack Obama's economic policies have failed miserably. In this round, I am going to summarize my case against Obama Economics. I will give more detail in each of the rounds concerning that aspect of the economy.

I. Abstract

Barack Obama's economic policy have endangered the economic viability of the nation. His failure relates to a fundamental challenge to democracy. In 1754, Edmund Burke notes [1]:


The solution is to create a small, representative government known as a Republic. I believe that we need to limit the government's size and limit the amount of money spent per year. This can easily be achieved by using what is called a Balanced Budget Amendment which forces Congress and the President to live within its means.

We do not have any precautionary steps to prevent us from economic collapse via overspending. In fact, we are within one decade to financial collapse -- when we collapse, it will be worse than the Great Depression. President Obama and other progressives believe that taxing the rich can pay for everything. However, this is leading to certain disaster.

II. The Economy Debt/deficit

Projections show that we are in a deficit around 1 trillion dollars out twenty years. This projection assumes a rapid return to sustained substantial economic growth. It is impossible, however, to return to such growth because of our current economic policy and control of business.

The national debt in Obama's four years has increased more than under George W. Bush's entire Presidency (note, I do NOT support Bush). The CBS reported that, "(CBS News) The National Debt has now increased more during President Obama's three years and two months in office than it did during 8 years of the George W. Bush presidency.
The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office." [2]






Today, the national debt clock reads 16 trillion dollars and counting. This time in 2008 the debt was 10 trillion dollars [3] -- a 6 trillion dollar increase!

III. Unemployment/Jobs

Obama has established high unemployment. Poor economic policies have kept the unemployment soaring. It is stable around 8.2%.

IV. Why he is a failure

I have shown some of the negatives that Obama has given. I will now like to summarize why this means that he is not successful in dealing with the economy.

1. Obama promised to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term but didn't (http://www.politifact.com/florida/st...is-first-term/)
2. The Obama administration estimated that the stimulus will hold unemployment just below 8 percent [4]. In fact, the unemployment has held at 8% for a record of 35 straight months.




[HR][/HR]

1.http://www.americantraditions.org/Ar...d_a_democr.htm
2. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...an-under-bush/
3. http://www.usdebtclock.org/2008.html
4. This is a goal, not a promise. http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...ould-keep-une/

Godless Raven

Barack Obama is a Successful president of the United States


The Economy Overall

When Barack Obama became president of the United States the country was in a Recession, the Auto Industry on the verge of collapse, health care costs were out of control, and the Banking and Housing industries close behind. Jobs were being lost at a record rate of 750,000 per month.

The young president promised change and initiatives to get the economy back on track.

The Recovery Act of 2009 designed to redistribute funding in the following 3 ways:


1. Tax Benefits
2. Contracts, Grants & Loans
3. Entitlements


For one example 1.3 billion dollars in grant money lent to Amtrak created 154 projects.

They used the funding to improve station work, equipment overhaul, infrastructure, security and maintenance.

http://www.recovery.gov/News/feature...novations.aspx

The above link has more details about Amtrak as well as full disclosure of the projects and costs of the current programs and future projects.

Reported jobs the Recovery Act has funded April 1st, 2012 to June 30th, 154, 014.

To fix the economy you have to spend money but it’s all in how that money is spent. Should it be for more tax breaks to the wealthy in the hopes that they will trickle it down by sharing, or by creating programs that stimulate the economy by creating jobs and proving training and competitive wages?


One of the biggest criticisms of Obama is that many of his plans require spending and a lot of it. His healthcare plan is expensive. The programs he sends funds to cost more, and some might argue that during a recession we shouldn’t be spending.

History does not lie however and we know that reducing taxes on the wealthy is not a way out of a recession, we know that reducing spending on programs that stimulate growth stunts progress, not increases it.

First things first…

Undoing the Damage

The value of Obama as president and his programs for the economy are not only found in the way he has increased funding to programs, you must also consider how badly the previous administration of George W. Bush had left these areas in dire need of support.

President Obama enacts the Credit Card Bill of Rights:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ill-of-rights/

Protecting the citizens from predatory lending and abuse of interest rates is a factor in the overall economy.

Obama has been consistently dedicated to the concept that the youth and children of today are the future of tomorrow. His plans have effects that will be seen for decades to come, not only in a short period like a couple of years.

Quote:

ALEXANDRIA, Va. – President Obama signed legislation Tuesday to expand college access for millions of young Americans by revamping the federal student loan program in what he called “one of the most significant investments in higher education since the G.I. Bill. The law will increase Pell Grant grants along with inflation in the next few years, which should raise the maximum grant to $5,975 from $5,550 by 2017, according to the White House, and it will also provide 820,000 more grants by 2020.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...s-health-care/

This is particularly important when you consider that there are currently as many as 3 million jobs currently unfilled in the United States right now. Jobs that can’t be filled because qualified candidates have not been trained or lack the qualifications to fill them.

Obama not only provides funding for programs in tech schools and regular colleges but he has also addressed the crippling avalanche of financial downfall that has come from the student loans that are supposed to help the youth pay for the opportunity.

You can’t join the middle class if you are living paycheck to paycheck after paying your student loans. And there are predatory lenders that take advantage of students by abusing their interest charges and demanding full payments.

Obama has created the following strategy to remove these abuses and free up the future and bolster the economy – creating a generation equipped to fill those 3 million jobs plus any other millions of jobs that the future holds because they will be educated and they will not be house poor trying to pay off that education.

http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/stu...loans/?print=1

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...nt_Act_of_2009

Technology

Barack Obama’s promise while running campaign to restore the United States dedication to the Sciences has been evident since the day he took office. Creating the country’s very first Chief Technology Officer dedicated to keeping the country on track as innovators.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ostp

http://www.commercialspaceflight.org...crew-concepts/

Science

Quote:

The Science of Spending Stimulus Money Wisely Bella will be twice as large and 20 times more powerful, and Dr. Leemans just got the $20.7 million in federal stimulus money that he needs to build it. “Bella is T-Rex on steroids,” said Dr. Leemans, a slight man of 46. Bella has the potential, he said, to help restore the nation’s prowess in particle physics. Less certain, however, is whether Bella represents smart economics. The cash for the project is a tiny slice of the stimulus package developed by Congress and the Obama administration to jump-start the economy. The stimulus legislation included about $18 billion for nondefense scientific research and development, a significant boost to the estimated $61.6 billion already going to science in the 2009 budget, according to the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/sc...ulus.html?_r=2

Cutting fat…


During his campaign to run for the office of President, Obama promised to cut costs in areas where spending was unregulated or wasteful. One of the ways he was successful in doing this is by the Weapons System Acquisition Reform Act of 2009 which:

According to Reported jobs the Recovery Act has funded April 1st, 2012 to June 30th, 154, 014., nearly 70% of the Pentagon's 96 biggest weapons programs were over budget in 2008. Another government report detailed $295 billion in waste and cost overruns in defense contracts.[1] The legislation created a Pentagon office, the Office of Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation (CAPE), to analyze the cost of new programs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_...rm_Act_of_2009

Undoing the Damage

Quote:

The Great Depression, like most other periods of severe unemployment, was produced by government mismanagement rather than by any inherent instability of the private economy. Milton Friedman

Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection


House conferees agreed to the Senate language that creates a bureau within the Federal Reserve to regulate consumer financial products like mortgages and credit cards. The bureau would also oversee payday lenders and check cashing businesses. Auto dealers and pawnbrokers are exempt from the bureau's regulation even though the Department of Defense wanted auto dealers included because of past instances of exploiting members of the military. House members originally wanted this watchdog to be a freestanding agency.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...35-503544.html

While this may not benefit the rich or upper class people, laws that protect citizens from predatory lending from subprime mortgage lenders, payday loan companies and check cashing companies are vital to today’s economy.
In our modern society, hundreds of thousands of American’s find themselves short on cash and loan at rates that would make mafias jealous.
Obama has created protections so that these companies have to follow stricter rules. Any extra money in the pocket of the people is a benefit to the economy.


Critics of Obama’s spending are unable to understand the difference between stupid spending and spending wise. We’re talking tax cuts for wealthy Americans during a recession vs. spending money on technology, investing in programs to create jobs for future.

The American Dream was once for any American to be able to own a house, a car, support a family and maybe vacations and some savings. But that dream has since been twisted by the Right, who have convinced half the country the Dream is to get rich and give back nothing.

That somehow instead of the original dream of everyone having a shot at security and stability, it became get rich quick and fuck as many people as you can on the way. Once you are rich, keep all the money for yourself.

But Obama understands the original American Dream and his change at hope and change is by providing every American the opportunity to join the middle class by offering them training, jobs for the future because of technology, education, and the security of knowing they will not go bankrupt trying to pay for the education.

Only a reckless fool of a leader would think they could make these changes in four short years. For Obama’s plan has always been what any great leaders should be. To help the people of today, contribute to the safety, economy of the future, and set the tone for success far beyond his life for our children and our children’s children.

Next up, Jobs.

Achwienichtig

I might be a little late getting the posts approved to view this weekend, but I will get to them as soon as I can.

Achwienichtig

:blank:

DoubtingDave

Obama's policies have failed the USA and have cost us thousands of jobs and has ruined our economy.

I. Unempoloyment/Stimulus

Obama's stimulus package was designed to keep unemployment below 8%. Instead, the unemployment soared to over 9%. One can measure this by simply looking at the job records under the economy:


News Busters reports:
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb-staf...#ixzz26kF1JiUq

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...ould-keep-une/.

Indeed, by July of 2012, it was predicted by the Obama administration that the unemployment will be 5.6 per cent. Obviously, the unemployment rate is nowhere near that number.

II. The bailouts

Despite the $20 billion+ bailout given to GM and the auto industry, GM is still headed towards banckruptcy. Forbes reports:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoo...kruptcy-again/


http://www.teapartypatriots.org/2012...nd-bankruptcy/


http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/...y%20Report.pdf

The National Review online notes:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...chelle-malkin#

One must pause to question: How much longer are we Americans going to put up with this. I am an American tax payer and I for one do not want my money going towards failed multi-billion dollar bailouts and in the end, we have nothing to show for.

Indeed, the auto industry has hurt under Obama. The cash for clunkers probably takes the cake.



In short, the Obama economic policy have failed miserably.

Godless Raven

President Barack Obama is successful as President of the United States

The Economy – Jobs

The Campaign:

1. “Create 5 million green jobs” over 10 years.

2. "Strengthen Small Business Administration programs that provide capital to minority-owned business..."

3. “Support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by establishing a small business and micro-enterprise initiative for rural America."

4. "Address the infrastructure challenge by creating a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank to expand and enhance, not supplant, existing federal transportation investments. "

5. Expand "the Small Business Administration's loan and micro-loan programs which provide start-up and long-term financing that small firms cannot receive through normal channels."

6. "During 2009 and 2010, existing businesses will receive a $3,000 refundable tax credit for each additional full-time employee hired."

The Inherited Environment “The Recession”

While President George W. Bush continued reducing taxes on the richest American’s simultaneously spending trillions of dollars on wars, the United States plummeted in to a Recession, approximately a year before Obama took office.

As scoundrels like “Kenny Boy” Lay at Enron laughed at the pillaging of the non-wealthy they abused, the Bush administration advised Americans after an attack on September 11th, 2001 to continue shopping or they win, rather than conserve - as previous presidents have understood the nation must sacrifice - not go on a shopping spree while spending trillions of dollars on the Military Industrial complex.

The Private Sector

Are All Jobs Alike?

When it pertains to jobs, not all jobs are the same.

Some jobs are permanent, some temporary, some are part time hours, some are fulltime. Some jobs come with benefits, some do not. Jobs with security are preferred over non-reliable employment.

During the reign of President George W. Bush the country was treated to several versions of the Kansas City Shuffle con, the least of which pertained to job growth.

As it was reported in May, 2004 the majority of jobs the Bush administration was taking credit for were “Temporary, Part-Time, & Low Pay” without benefits.

http://www.kyklosproductions.com/articles/no_jobs.html

No, all jobs are not alike, and while President Barack Obama has kept his promise to enter in to a new era of disclosure, George W. Bush operated under a deceptive report of actual jobs created because as it turns out if a middle class person with benefits loses their secure job so they can work 15 hours a week as a gas station attendant, the economy via jobs has actually gotten a lot worse.

One of the most important factors to consider when looking at Obama’s record on jobs is to consider that as the US further dropped in to the recession the Banking, Mortgage and Auto industries in the US could have collapsed.

This does not just affect CEO’s, CFO’s and corporate managers, every single bank teller, car parts manufacturer, car salesperson, real estate agent et al could have found themselves quickly amongst the avalanching unemployment figures, however Obama saved many of those positions through his Recovery Act. Those jobs may not count to the GOP, but they count to “Joe” and “Joanne” the auto-glass makers and their families.
The smoke and mirrors are gone.

"Oh...About that Campaign":

5 million “green” jobs:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...on-green-jobs/


Strengthen Small Business Administration programs that provide capital to minority-owned businesses:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ss-to-capital/

Expand "the Small Business Administration's loan and micro-loan programs:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ll-businesses/


Address the infrastructure challenge by creating a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank to expand and enhance, not supplant, existing federal transportation investments:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ds-and-bridge/


Support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by establishing a small business and micro-enterprise initiative for rural America:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-for-rural-am/

During 2009 and 2010, existing businesses will receive a $3,000 refundable tax credit for each additional full-time employee hired:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-for-companie/


So while the GOP has continued trying to convince the American people that Trickle Down Economics and further tax cuts to the most wealthy Americans is how you stimulate job growth, with all evidence of this model during the Bush years demonstratively proving this theory false – literally gutting the middle class of America with each tax cut and program slash, creating temp, part time low paying jobs to appear to replace the middle class – President Obama has continually attempted to pass legislation to move the poor people back in to the middle class.

He has kept promises that stimulated the Economy, and he kept his promise to compromise because he is the president of the United States, not the President of the Democratic voters of the United States.

He has failed where obstruction has prevented any chance of success - while the opposition kept their promise before he was ever elected to forget creating jobs and focus on making Obama lose his.

Next Up: The Economy: Debt/Deficit