Steven Carr

Can Gamera actually answer a straight question? Where does Paul say that the 'psyche' does not die?


Where does Paul say that after resurrection, people will have a soma, psyche and pnuema?

Steven Carr

Paul often writes as if the 'psyche' (which Gamera thinks is immortal) is what you lose when you die.

See Romans 11:3, Romans 16:4 or Philippians 2:30 'Because for the work of Christ he was nigh unto death, not regarding his life (psyche), to supply your lack of service toward me.'

jakejonesiv

No it isn't rocket science. You are importing concepts from elsewhere into the Pauline context. Your inability to answer Stephen's simple and direct questions is revealing.

Jake Jones IV

Magdlyn

There is no plain language in Paul! Paul is quite flowery. He uses hyperbole in a confusing way, and combines Greek mystery religion and Jewish religion.

I quite agree that one must:

Gamera

The problem with Steve is semantic slippage. He first asked about the resurrection of the soul.

The soul is not resurrected in Paul's veiw. The body is.

The soul is given eternal life through salvation, but "life" here doesn't mean "existence." It means existence with God.

The soul is eternal, and subject to eternal punishment or eternal "life". In both cases, the soul continues to exist.

So Steve needs to ask one question at a time.

Does the soul exists for ever according to Paul. Yes, here's where he indicates such. Now, next question.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 - They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Steven Carr

Can't find the word 'psyche' (soul) in there.

Does eternal destruction mean that you exist for ever?

Doug Shaver

According to what dictionary?

Where in the Bible does any writer say that when he says "life," he really means "existence with God"? If no writer says it, how do you know that that is what they meant?

Gamera

Well you see if you intend on reading a complex text, like Paul's letters, with a dictionary, you've already missed the point.

Words have contexts. Sorry, you need to deal with that.

I suppose if you read Heidegger's Sein Und Zeit you got to a German dictionary and insiste that Dasein means existence and not what Heidegger says it means. Hokay.

Gamera

It appears so since the destruction is set in opposition to life, as defined by existence with God. In Paul's use of these terms, life is existence with God, and death and destruction is existence without God.

This is Paul at work, struggling to explain concepts that are totally new in this new faith. He can only be understood by reading him carefully and in context, not by looking at a dictionary. This makes him no different than any other original thinker, but he was particular original and uses words in particularly novel ways, being on the cusp of this revolution in Judaism.

Magdlyn

Correct, and BTW...

Some do not translate psyche as soul at all. Some translate it as mind. Be careful of blithely facile translations.

Destroy would seem to be the opposite of exist, correct? A paradox. Gnostics often used these kinds of oppositions to "define" God, who is undefinable.

For example, God's dwelling is in the "dazzling darkness."


See Thunder, Perfect Psyche (mind/consciousness) for clear examples of gnostic paradox, used in an attempt to describe the feminine aspects of God.