Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Steven Carr · 04-21-2009, 02:23 PM

Did the Passover lamb have to be prepared so that it was free from blood?

What would have been the Jewish reaction to Jesus telling people to metaphorically drink blood?

No Robots · 04-21-2009, 02:37 PM

The symbolic connection between blood and wine in the Seder is well known:

The mitzvah of the four cups is optimally fulfilled with red wine. This is based on the verse (Proverbs 23:31) that states: Do not look at the wine as it reddens . This implies that red wine is superior. Red wine also serves as a reminder of the blood of circumcision and the blood of the Paschal sacrifice, for Israel was told before leaving Egypt: Circumcise all your males and then come to offer the sacrifice.

The Torah then tells us that the entire nation did as they were commanded. The blood of circumcision became mingled with the blood of the sacrifice and it is the merit of these two mitzvot that we commemorate by drinking red wine.

Red wine also serves as a reminder of the blood that was smeared on the doorposts as a sign when G-d passed over the homes of Israel not permitting the destruction to strike them. By using red wine thus we express our prayer that G-d continue to protect us from all our enemies and foes.

Red wine also serves to protect us and as a reminder of the blood of the Jewish children whom Pharaoh slaughtered so as to bathe in their blood and be cured of his leprosy. This shed blood shall never be silenced. Even three thousand years after this tragedy we shall remember.

--from here

Toto · 04-21-2009, 04:57 PM

Blood Pollution

The basis for avoiding blood in meat is the belief that the spirit of the animal is in its blood.

Quote:

So deeply ingrained was the superstition that the spirit of life was in the blood that there is a specific warning to the Children of Israel against "eating" blood in Deuteronomy, Chapter 12, verse 23:

23. Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

There is a similar provision emphasizing the taboo against eating blood in Genesis, Chapter 9, verse 4:

4. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

This is the reason why orthodox Jews even today will eat only "kosher" meat. . .

Joseph Lewis does not connect this to drinking Jesus' blood, but if you have some underlying belief that the spirit lives in the blood, those who took this communion would be ingesting Jesus' spirit. (Then what does eating his body refer to?)

This makes some sense in a primitive, superstitious, symbolic frame of mind.

andrewcriddle · 04-22-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Did the Passover lamb have to be prepared so that it was free from blood?

Before the fall of the temple in 70 CE the Passover lamb was slaughtered in the temple courtyard and the blood sprinkled at the base of the altar.
See Mishnah Pesahim 5:5 - 5:8.

So yes, the lamb was eaten without its blood.

Andrew Criddle

storytime · 04-22-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Blood Pollution

The basis for avoiding blood in meat is the belief that the spirit of the animal is in its blood.

Quote:

So deeply ingrained was the superstition that the spirit of life was in the blood that there is a specific warning to the Children of Israel against "eating" blood in Deuteronomy, Chapter 12, verse 23:

23. Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

There is a similar provision emphasizing the taboo against eating blood in Genesis, Chapter 9, verse 4:

4. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

This is the reason why orthodox Jews even today will eat only "kosher" meat. . .

Joseph Lewis does not connect this to drinking Jesus' blood, but if you have some underlying belief that the spirit lives in the blood, those who took this communion would be ingesting Jesus' spirit. (Then what does eating his body refer to?)

This makes some sense in a primitive, superstitious, symbolic frame of mind.

His flesh = Judaism, "salvation is of the Jews".

His blood = His words of life, scriptures word of God.

Some who desired to become disciples turned back when Jesus declared his requirement for discipleship - "those who do not drink my blood and eat my flesh cannot become my disciples." A real turn-off for Jews who could not metaphorically decipher that particular language of Jesus.

Jesus coded his language in parables to deceive. He did not want anyone in his kingdom for whom it was not given. (Matt.)

04-21-2009, 02:23 PM	#1
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	Passover blood - is it kosher? Did the Passover lamb have to be prepared so that it was free from blood? What would have been the Jewish reaction to Jesus telling people to metaphorically drink blood?

04-21-2009, 02:37 PM	#2
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	The symbolic connection between blood and wine in the Seder is well known: The mitzvah of the four cups is optimally fulfilled with red wine. This is based on the verse (Proverbs 23:31) that states: Do not look at the wine as it reddens . This implies that red wine is superior. Red wine also serves as a reminder of the blood of circumcision and the blood of the Paschal sacrifice, for Israel was told before leaving Egypt: Circumcise all your males and then come to offer the sacrifice. The Torah then tells us that the entire nation did as they were commanded. The blood of circumcision became mingled with the blood of the sacrifice and it is the merit of these two mitzvot that we commemorate by drinking red wine. Red wine also serves as a reminder of the blood that was smeared on the doorposts as a sign when G-d passed over the homes of Israel not permitting the destruction to strike them. By using red wine thus we express our prayer that G-d continue to protect us from all our enemies and foes. Red wine also serves to protect us and as a reminder of the blood of the Jewish children whom Pharaoh slaughtered so as to bathe in their blood and be cured of his leprosy. This shed blood shall never be silenced. Even three thousand years after this tragedy we shall remember. --from here

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