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Old 12-26-2012, 07:19 AM   #11
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People observe special days because that is part of our culture,
how humans interact with each other. You can say that humans are weak and miserable, because we are in fact a social animal unable to survive on our own, and need these messy, contradictory social relations.
Ah yes. 'part of our culture'.

Galatians was addressed to a primarily gentile audience, one that lived in a culture were many gentile gods were worshiped and each had their own special days and months and seasons and years, celebrated in this gentile cultural milieu with often extravagant public feasts, processions, and some with bacchanalian excess and or 'Pornia' erotic revelry.

'Paul' represented a very conservative and very religious background, one extremely concerned with restricting one's social and sexual appetites for the sake of morality and order in this present life, and for the sake of one's eventual entry into the coming 'Kingdom of Heaven'.

What Paul would have been warning his gentile converts about was turning aside from that path of single minded devotion and modesty, and again becoming caught up in the elaborate mythologies and ritual observances and the celebrations, processions, and banquets of such festival days and seasons as Saturnalia, Bacchanalia, Dionysia, Theogamia, Lupercalia,...and the hundreds more.
With so many gods there were such festivals and observances going on every single day of the year, year around.
This is what Paul would have been trying to clean and separate his congregations from. Not from the biblical ordained seven annual Holy Days, which the NT texts mention in many places that Paul himself continued to observe wherever he went, as all being set in place for being teachers of the nature, workings, and patterns of Heavenly things, to be comprehended -by the observing-, and to be achieved in his Christ.

That seventh Great Feast is that one yet to come, the great Harvest Ingathering Festival and that Last Great Day at the End of The Age, when all the nations of the earth will finally with one accord go up to Jerusalem and keep the Feast of Tabernacles from year to year.
And The Messiah of יהוה אלהים will rule over all nations, kindreds, and peoples.
And there shall be but One אלהים 'Elohim' over all the earth, with One name; יהוה
(not 'Pan', not 'Jupiter', not 'Theos', not 'Gawd'.....etc, there are thousands)

Not stating that anyone has to believe that this is ever going to be accomplished in reality.
But this would have been a part of that 'heritage of Israel' that 'Paul' would have been attempting to convey to his gentile congregations.

To -separate- themselves in earnest preparation, and to keep themselves 'holy' and -'set apart'- from these worthless gentile gods and all of their worthless festival days and months, and rather to observe and to keep what Christ and the Prophets, being the express example and the pattern for all that believed in The Holy One of Israel, honored, observed, and kept.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:28 AM   #12
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People observe special days because that is part of our culture,
how humans interact with each other. You can say that humans are weak and miserable, because we are in fact a social animal unable to survive on our own, and need these messy, contradictory social relations.
Galatians was addressed to a primarily gentile audience, one that lived in a culture were many gentile gods were worshiped and each had their own special days and months and seasons and years, celebrated in this gentile cultural milieu with often extravagant public feasts, processions, and some with bacchanalian excess and or 'Pornia' erotic revelry.
That is what the Galatians had been, yes. The Galatians had been 'slaves to those who by nature are not gods', the common Jewish (and biblical) expression for pagan deities. But now they were under pressure from Jews to be circumcised. Along with this pressure went the concomitant obligation to keep sabbaths, etc., which the Galatians were also to resist. Paul had the same concern in his letter to the Colossian church:

'Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.' Col 2:16-17 NIV

And yet, the Galatians are told that they were 'going back' to weak and miserable principles. That word 'principles' is crucial here. The principle is observation of special occasions itself, independent of origin, pagan or Jewish. Even Jewish festivals were to be discarded by Jews, and certainly not taken up by Gentiles, because they were now of equal status with pagan practices.

So what is deeply destructive about observation of special religious occasions? It not that observation of special occasions was considered a means of atonement, either for pagans or the Children of Israel. There was a more basic principle here, and it is the reason that there is not a single tradition of special occasion observation, let alone command for it, in the NT (Paul's mention of their observation was because he wanted to be present to preach to Jews, not because he personally maintained observation). This, quite apart from the fact that the Christian, who is moment by moment taking incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection into account in every decision, finds special 'church year' occasions utterly meaningless and somewhat barmy.

The principle is this; and we all know it, from common observation. If one occasion is more holy than another, another is less holy than it should be. A 'holy day' allows the deepest hypocrisy— selfish, self-centred people who are thoroughly unpleasant in the office or shop floor, who steal, cheat, abuse, even kill, most of the year, yet who indoctrinate their young with nativity plays, sing carols and flock to midnight communion. This is why the world, 'atheists', Hindus, Muslims included, loves 'Christmas'; because people cannot, or will not, cope with holiness. Any who expose it to the demand to be holy, that people fervently believe is the demand of the New Testament, frighten them greatly, so are treated with disrespect, or worse. 'Christmas' is not only as imaginary as a spaghetti monster, it is whitewash; weak, miserable and cowardly.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:24 AM   #13
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sotto voce is a soldier in the War Against Christmas!
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:29 AM   #14
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sotto voce is a soldier in the War Against Christmas!
The white flag.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:22 PM   #15
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"For as the New Heavens and the New Earth Which I will make shall remain before Me, says יהוה
So shall your descendants and your name remain".

And it shall come to pass from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says יהוה
Quote:
And יהוה shall be King over all the earth.
In that day there shall be ONE. יהוה And His name One.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, יהוה צבאות and to keep The Feast of Tabernacles.

And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, יהוה צבאות on them there will be no rain.

If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which יהוה strikes the nations who do not come up to keep The Feast of Tabernacles.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of ALL the nations that do not come up to keep The Feast of Tabernacles.
Reminder;
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Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'In The Seventh Month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a Sabbath, a Memorial of Blowing of Trumpets, a Holy convocation.

And in The Seventh Month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. For you it is a day of blowing The Trumpets.

Also in The Fifteenth day of The Seventh Month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep a feast unto יהוה seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

You shall keep it as a Feast to יהוה for seven days in the year.
It shall be a statute forever in your generations. You shall celebrate it in The Seventh Month.
Quote:
For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me.
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words.

O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the Prophets have spoken:
Paul knew. Paul believed.

Do you believe Moses? Do you believe The Prophets ?

.....or the interpretations and doctrines taught by the philosophers of the Catholic Church ?

Who here knows with certainty how to locate the First day of The First Month ? or The Fourteenth day of The First Month ?? or the Fifteenth day of The Seventh Month ???

Who spoke saying; 'MY Sabbaths you shall surely keep'.

Or do you simply dance to the tune that the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church orchestrates to you in such matters? ...I fear for you.

.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:16 PM   #16
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"For as the New Heavens and the New Earth Which I will make shall remain before Me, says יהוה
So shall your descendants and your name remain".

And it shall come to pass from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says יהוה
Both Sabbaths and New Moons were special or holy (i.e. separated) occasions. Sabbaths were for rest, New Moons for rejoicing. So the eventual reward for the saints was to be continuous joyful rest, separate from the unholy (see Is 35:8-10). The spiritual meanings attached to literal ideas is indicated here, if only because the literal meaning is impractical.

Quote:
And יהוה shall be King over all the earth.
In that day there shall be ONE. יהוה And His name One.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, יהוה צבאות and to keep The Feast of Tabernacles.

And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, יהוה צבאות on them there will be no rain.

If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which יהוה strikes the nations who do not come up to keep The Feast of Tabernacles.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of ALL the nations that do not come up to keep The Feast of Tabernacles.
The Feast of Tabernacles was for thanks for harvest, which may be interpreted as a spiritual one. The family of Egypt represented ungrateful pagans, who were not to receive the rain or blessing of deity, but punishment.

Quote:
Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'In The Seventh Month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a Sabbath, a Memorial of Blowing of Trumpets, a Holy convocation.

You shall keep it as a Feast to יהוה for seven days in the year.
It shall be a statute forever in your generations. You shall celebrate it in The Seventh Month.

And in The Seventh Month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. For you it is a day of blowing The Trumpets.
Again, there is much figurative meaning here. It was to be a statute indefinitely rather than forever. This interpretation must be considered in the light of

'"The time is coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers."' Jer 31:31-32 NIV


So all special days in the Tanakh may be said to relate to a dayless eternity.

'In keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.' 2 Pe 3:13 NIV

Paul wrote that special days were mere shadows of the future, an inessential except for those to whom they were directly, but temporarily given, and their physical descendants. This must be so, because the patriarchs knew nothing of them. They cannot refer to special days intended for Gentiles, but only to an eternity open to all.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:42 PM   #17
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You have that form of doctrine you have received from your teachers, and I from mine האספות ליהוה׃

Father Noah, and Jacob and Laban, if we accept the Scripture, knew the turnings of the Months and the number of their days.

That is how things are. Whether either one of us is right in our views, or both of us are wrong, only the events of time will tell.
If Messiah comes, he will judge the matter and will reward or punish each appropriately.
I will do what clear conscience compels me Today, Tomorrow, the Third Day, the Tenth Day, the Fourteenth Day, the Fifteenth Day, and the Twenty and First Day. I will await -his- Decision.


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Old 12-26-2012, 06:03 PM   #18
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You have that form of doctrine you have received from your teachers
The aforementioned prophets, if so.




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If Messiah comes
If?
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:14 PM   #19
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Yes IF;
Quote:
אם־
A good and holy word, much employed by honest men.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:46 PM   #20
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Yes IF;
Quote:
אם־
A good and holy word, much employed by honest men.
Iffy ones, too?
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