Freethought & Rationalism ArchiveThe archives are read only. |
12-26-2012, 07:19 AM | #11 | |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On the path of knowledge
Posts: 8,889
|
Quote:
Galatians was addressed to a primarily gentile audience, one that lived in a culture were many gentile gods were worshiped and each had their own special days and months and seasons and years, celebrated in this gentile cultural milieu with often extravagant public feasts, processions, and some with bacchanalian excess and or 'Pornia' erotic revelry. 'Paul' represented a very conservative and very religious background, one extremely concerned with restricting one's social and sexual appetites for the sake of morality and order in this present life, and for the sake of one's eventual entry into the coming 'Kingdom of Heaven'. What Paul would have been warning his gentile converts about was turning aside from that path of single minded devotion and modesty, and again becoming caught up in the elaborate mythologies and ritual observances and the celebrations, processions, and banquets of such festival days and seasons as Saturnalia, Bacchanalia, Dionysia, Theogamia, Lupercalia,...and the hundreds more. With so many gods there were such festivals and observances going on every single day of the year, year around. This is what Paul would have been trying to clean and separate his congregations from. Not from the biblical ordained seven annual Holy Days, which the NT texts mention in many places that Paul himself continued to observe wherever he went, as all being set in place for being teachers of the nature, workings, and patterns of Heavenly things, to be comprehended -by the observing-, and to be achieved in his Christ. That seventh Great Feast is that one yet to come, the great Harvest Ingathering Festival and that Last Great Day at the End of The Age, when all the nations of the earth will finally with one accord go up to Jerusalem and keep the Feast of Tabernacles from year to year. And The Messiah of יהוה אלהים will rule over all nations, kindreds, and peoples. And there shall be but One אלהים 'Elohim' over all the earth, with One name; יהוה (not 'Pan', not 'Jupiter', not 'Theos', not 'Gawd'.....etc, there are thousands) Not stating that anyone has to believe that this is ever going to be accomplished in reality. But this would have been a part of that 'heritage of Israel' that 'Paul' would have been attempting to convey to his gentile congregations. To -separate- themselves in earnest preparation, and to keep themselves 'holy' and -'set apart'- from these worthless gentile gods and all of their worthless festival days and months, and rather to observe and to keep what Christ and the Prophets, being the express example and the pattern for all that believed in The Holy One of Israel, honored, observed, and kept. |
|
12-26-2012, 09:28 AM | #12 | ||
Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 3,057
|
Quote:
'Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.' Col 2:16-17 NIV And yet, the Galatians are told that they were 'going back' to weak and miserable principles. That word 'principles' is crucial here. The principle is observation of special occasions itself, independent of origin, pagan or Jewish. Even Jewish festivals were to be discarded by Jews, and certainly not taken up by Gentiles, because they were now of equal status with pagan practices. So what is deeply destructive about observation of special religious occasions? It not that observation of special occasions was considered a means of atonement, either for pagans or the Children of Israel. There was a more basic principle here, and it is the reason that there is not a single tradition of special occasion observation, let alone command for it, in the NT (Paul's mention of their observation was because he wanted to be present to preach to Jews, not because he personally maintained observation). This, quite apart from the fact that the Christian, who is moment by moment taking incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection into account in every decision, finds special 'church year' occasions utterly meaningless and somewhat barmy. The principle is this; and we all know it, from common observation. If one occasion is more holy than another, another is less holy than it should be. A 'holy day' allows the deepest hypocrisy— selfish, self-centred people who are thoroughly unpleasant in the office or shop floor, who steal, cheat, abuse, even kill, most of the year, yet who indoctrinate their young with nativity plays, sing carols and flock to midnight communion. This is why the world, 'atheists', Hindus, Muslims included, loves 'Christmas'; because people cannot, or will not, cope with holiness. Any who expose it to the demand to be holy, that people fervently believe is the demand of the New Testament, frighten them greatly, so are treated with disrespect, or worse. 'Christmas' is not only as imaginary as a spaghetti monster, it is whitewash; weak, miserable and cowardly. |
||
12-26-2012, 11:24 AM | #13 |
Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
|
sotto voce is a soldier in the War Against Christmas!
|
12-26-2012, 11:29 AM | #14 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 3,057
|
|
12-26-2012, 02:22 PM | #15 | ||||
Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On the path of knowledge
Posts: 8,889
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do you believe Moses? Do you believe The Prophets ? .....or the interpretations and doctrines taught by the philosophers of the Catholic Church ? Who here knows with certainty how to locate the First day of The First Month ? or The Fourteenth day of The First Month ?? or the Fifteenth day of The Seventh Month ??? Who spoke saying; 'MY Sabbaths you shall surely keep'. Or do you simply dance to the tune that the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church orchestrates to you in such matters? ...I fear for you. . |
||||
12-26-2012, 04:16 PM | #16 | ||||
Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 3,057
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
'"The time is coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers."' Jer 31:31-32 NIV So all special days in the Tanakh may be said to relate to a dayless eternity. 'In keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.' 2 Pe 3:13 NIV Paul wrote that special days were mere shadows of the future, an inessential except for those to whom they were directly, but temporarily given, and their physical descendants. This must be so, because the patriarchs knew nothing of them. They cannot refer to special days intended for Gentiles, but only to an eternity open to all. |
||||
12-26-2012, 05:42 PM | #17 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On the path of knowledge
Posts: 8,889
|
You have that form of doctrine you have received from your teachers, and I from mine האספות ליהוה׃
Father Noah, and Jacob and Laban, if we accept the Scripture, knew the turnings of the Months and the number of their days. That is how things are. Whether either one of us is right in our views, or both of us are wrong, only the events of time will tell. If Messiah comes, he will judge the matter and will reward or punish each appropriately. I will do what clear conscience compels me Today, Tomorrow, the Third Day, the Tenth Day, the Fourteenth Day, the Fifteenth Day, and the Twenty and First Day. I will await -his- Decision. Sheshbazzar The Hebrew |
12-26-2012, 06:03 PM | #18 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 3,057
|
|
12-26-2012, 06:14 PM | #19 | |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On the path of knowledge
Posts: 8,889
|
Yes IF;
Quote:
|
|
12-26-2012, 06:46 PM | #20 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 3,057
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|